Aibu not to offer to give up my seat?

[fatandold]

On a packed commuter tube carriage, I'm sitting in the "priority seat". It only just became available when we reached a station, and I was glad of the chance to sit down and it was closest to where I was standing. Currently ill with a bug and feeling like death, not that that is hugely relevant as I'm not pregnant or disabled to qualify for special treatment. If I hadn't sat there, someone else would have and nobody else appeared to be a "qualifying person".

So, a mum and little girl get on. Train becomes less packed. Girl looks about 8 yrs old, shoe size 1-2 (I'm good with shoes), and has a scooter. My instinct was to offer the girl my seat, but I dithered and the woman next to me offers her seat to the child, and the mum declines as they are getting off the next stop.

When I was a child, my mum made us get up to offer an adult a seat, regardless of whether said adult was vulnerable or in special need. This was the social convention because in those days you deferred to the older generation. When we were babies or toddlers my mum would have been given a seat and we would be on her lap. We would rarely have been offered a seat of our own. I can't remember at what age we were made to stand but probably from about 4 or 5.

So what is the cut off age or condition now? This girl was quite capable of standing, yet possibly because I have small children, and as a society we now defer to children's wants and needs far more than when I was a child, my first instinct was to offer her my seat.

I dithered with indecision paralysis, so lost the opportunity. Then I started to wonder if I actually should have offered it or not. Over to you, wise old MN.

Limited period. I was making the point that that was the ethos of society when I was being brought up and it was taught in schools and reinforced at home. It was considered good manners to respect your elders. In many cultures this is fundamental to their beliefs, to the stability of their culture. Why do you feel this is wrong?
Do you think our society is better for losing this ethos?

They are children! They should give up seats for adults! This is why we have too many "delicate snowflakes " 30 years ago this wouldn't have happened

I offer my seat to people who are less able to stand than myself too FrancisCrawford. Sometimes they are older than me and sometimes they are younger. Sometimes they are even the same age. Who but a barbarian wouldn't do that?

I also understood at the time that babies and toddlers went free as they could sit on parent's knee and wouldn't take up a seat and children under 16 went half price as it was expected if seats were short they would stand.
Has this changed? Do children pay full price now?

I don't it's wrong to respect your elders Littlepleasures. But I think it's misguided to respect people simply because they've lived longer than you.

A couple of people older than me taught me that

Have you heard of the Freedom Pass Littlepleasures? Should the over 60s sit on people's knees?

I was taught to give up my seat for an elderly person, as they are likely to need it more. But a child giving up a seat to a fit and healthy adult seems silly. I wouldn't take a seat unless I really felt I needed it, but was shoved out of the way all the time by tourists on the tube when I was pregnant and massive. They all rush for the seats for a 5 minute journey and then sit there saying 'How do people do this every day?' so seats must be very important to some people

'A woman who must have been in her late sixties got on,with a boy of about 12,who I think was her grandson. DP stood up and offered the WOMAN his seat,and the boy promptly sat down on it! I said to the boy 'The seat was offered to the lady,not you' to which she replied 'Oh it's ok,he can sit there'. I've told DP not to give up his seat to perfectly able children in future.'

But Janey you could have seen that situation with me and my daughter who is 13. She has an invisible disability and if a seat was offered I would stand and let her take it. She looks absolutely fine.

She is constantly judged/tutted at/shouted at by members of the public who have decided they know better than her consultant.

i'm in my mid 30's and that was my experience ( and friends) too. Get up for older people.

surely we are all intelligent enough to question social convention, no? why should someone younger get up for someone older? some commuters are knackered and some kids went to school all day and moved on to an after school club. what if it was convention for women to get up for men? or vice versa?

I don't think there is a good answer to this, which is why the likely best rule is those less able to stand, whatever their age, race or gender, get priority.

I do wonder how people have the gall to refuse people a seat - even if I thought the person was an arsehole I'd probably just secretly seethe at them, unnoticed by all.

I don't think I'll bother, limited. Your discourse, and not just with me, suggests your user name is rather apt, so it seems a little pointless.

I have been ill and pregnant on my commute home from work a couple years ago(super busy all the time and constant delays) was lucky enough to get a seat and was promptly ordered by a woman who had one of those silly badges on to 'move because can't you see I'm pregnant?!' the badge was the only sign she was pregnant. Not even a bump. I promptly whipped back my coat. Showed her my bump and told her to fuck off. Took great delight in offering my seat to a one legged man that needed it shortly afterwards. I am 25 and have always been taught to offer my seat to my elders/people who need It. But no way in hell am I doing anything for anyone that demands it of me. Pregnant, disabled, child, elderly or not, if you are rude to me in the way you ask, my bum shall not be shifting!

I wasn't in a priority seat at the time. Thought I should mention that.

This thread makes me wonder whether some people think: 'God! Why doesn't that person give up their seat? They look a bit younger than me. Or has she had Botox?'

I'm not sure dd pays half fare. She pays £33 a month for the bus pass. I don't think the adult pass is £66

I don't even give up my seat for pregnant women- got a spinal condition that makes standing still (especially on public transport) for even a few minutes very painful. You'd never know it just from looking at me though, and I've had some very shitty looks thrown my when I've been in a priority seat and not leapt out of it!

My (unofficial) hidden disability doesn't prevent me from being able to stand on the tube. However it does mean that on the way there I hold the hand rail and walk fairly slowly on the left on the escalators rather than skipping down. I walk because I don't want to wait behind the people standing on the right.

Some people sometimes get quite angry that I'm in their way because they want to go faster than me.

They can fuck off. I was there in front of them.

It's similar to people who think that children shouldn't take seats or that their mums should pile them up on their laps, or any people other than commuters shouldn't travel in peak hours. Sorry. They were there in front of you. It's commuting. Suck it up.

I just had a thought I tandem carrying both my baby's and I offer my seat if needed. But then I probably get in the way of other people trying to pass

WLF I can assure you the woman in question won't be thinking of taking to Mumsnet to vent about what an evil bitch you are for not offering her able-bodied child a seat so she could turn it down!

Ha, you never know!!

Thanks to those for all the nice uplifting stories of commuter thoughtfulness, and I share the annoyance of all those who have encountered horrible treatment.

And I didn't expect a roasting for being ill and going to work! I always antibac my hands when travelling (usually to avoid catching bugs), but this bug was caught from a colleague! Nothing too hideous, just a cold but with some fainty woozy sicky feelings which was what made me feel grateful to sit down. Life goes on and we can't all stay in bed with a low grade virus. That would mean horrendous numbers of sick days in the winter for the whole country.

BTW to respond to the comments about why I shouldn't expect a child to get up for me - I don't! I was just commenting on how different it was when I was a child. Back in the olden days when Jimmy Saville was on top grooming form!

Back in the olden days when Jimmy Saville was on top grooming form!

Perhaps that's why we shouldn't expect children to blindly respect their elders, OP.

And many use the age criteria as a basis for determining that need. Some judge that those older than they are in more in need, and others judge children more in need.

I think most decent people are good judges, and I err on the side of giving up the seat, especially if I am running on full strength (no cold etc). and I don't want to sound mean, but if you have a hidden disability I think the burden is on you to ask. People can't read minds. And getting up for the elderly wouldn't help a 20 year old with a hidden disability.

fatandold i too was only agreeing that it was the norm for my friends and i growing up

lightsandresistance your gd has my sympathies!
Lost track of the amount of times i've been called rude for not giving up my seat

I am 35 and was Always as a child told to give up my seat. I don't see the need for it though.
When I was pg I used to say politely "excuse me please, I'm pregnant would anyone be able to give me a seat please?" That way if someone's got a hidden disability they don't feel put on the spot.
Once though a woman said "I never got a seat when I was pregnant you shouldn't expect it"