Aibu not to offer to give up my seat?

[fatandold]

On a packed commuter tube carriage, I'm sitting in the "priority seat". It only just became available when we reached a station, and I was glad of the chance to sit down and it was closest to where I was standing. Currently ill with a bug and feeling like death, not that that is hugely relevant as I'm not pregnant or disabled to qualify for special treatment. If I hadn't sat there, someone else would have and nobody else appeared to be a "qualifying person".

So, a mum and little girl get on. Train becomes less packed. Girl looks about 8 yrs old, shoe size 1-2 (I'm good with shoes), and has a scooter. My instinct was to offer the girl my seat, but I dithered and the woman next to me offers her seat to the child, and the mum declines as they are getting off the next stop.

When I was a child, my mum made us get up to offer an adult a seat, regardless of whether said adult was vulnerable or in special need. This was the social convention because in those days you deferred to the older generation. When we were babies or toddlers my mum would have been given a seat and we would be on her lap. We would rarely have been offered a seat of our own. I can't remember at what age we were made to stand but probably from about 4 or 5.

So what is the cut off age or condition now? This girl was quite capable of standing, yet possibly because I have small children, and as a society we now defer to children's wants and needs far more than when I was a child, my first instinct was to offer her my seat.

I dithered with indecision paralysis, so lost the opportunity. Then I started to wonder if I actually should have offered it or not. Over to you, wise old MN.

RiverTam same age as you and we were expected to do this too.

I ageee with the others, I would give a small child my seat but not an eight year old, unless the mother asked and said there was a medical issue.

I also agree with the others, the bigger question is should you have been on a packed commuter train suffering from a bug that made you feel like death? Because if that little girl caught it she's got bigger problems than the fact uou didn't give your seat up.

So basically forced to stand and possibly knocked sick too, nice one.

8 yo can stand. A small child (3-4 or less) maybe different if very crowded. (but they should sit on a parent rather than get their own seat if that's an option).

If it was your personal experience and your parents were happy to go along with it and you are happy to continue, then that is fine RiverTam. It's not mine and I'm not.

But it's not correct for the OP to assert that this was social convention. It might have been where she was and where you were but not where I was.

I remember signs on buses saying that children had to stand if full fayre paying passengers had no seats. Fair enough.

And I don't think this is fair enough. Pensioners get free travel passes. Should they stand if they are clearly unable to because someone else has paid full fayre?

limited i'm in my mid 30's and that was my experience ( and friends) too.
Get up for older people.

Yanbu op.
I wouldn't get up for anyone though.

chilipepper20 some people don't ask because others can unfortunately be horrible, especially if it isn't obvious what is wrong with you.

No, you're fine. Priority seats are there for people who need the seat more than you - such as the elderly, disabled or pregnant. Not for people who are perfectly able to stand. Anyway, the offer was declined, so what are you worrying about? Worry about things that you can change, not things that didn't happen - I can assure you the woman in question won't be thinking of taking to Mumsnet to vent about what an evil bitch you are for not offering her able-bodied child a seat so she could turn it down!

Also assuming the op is going/leaving work.
Yes in an ideal world we wouldn't leave the house with bugs, but that isn't possible.
Unless it's a serious illness that's contagious ( chicken pox etc) then people have to go out, have to go to work. I
My old work certainly wouldn't accept me not coming in just because i had a bug.

I'd have offered my seat if she was having trouble holding onto the rail and stumbling around or something. But not otherwise.

Woman on my train this morning had her bag on the seat next to her. Someone asked her to move it so they could sit down, she said she couldn't as it was wet and she didn't want to get her lap wet...

And am shocked how many people take issue with being on a train if you are ill. That's life, sometimes!

^i'm in my mid 30's and that was my experience ( and friends) too.
Get up for older people.^

So can I expect you to get up for me kali110? There's no reason why I can't stand but I am older than you.

DrQuinzel I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. What an utter knob. for you.

I don't get this thing with adults falling over themselves to offer children seats on public transport. I don't mean very small children (2-3 yeas old so not very steady on a moving vehicle) but kids of 9 or 10,who are perfectly fit,and capable of standing up. I got irritated a few weeks ago when I was on a crowded bus with my DP. I am physically disabled,he is able-bodied. A woman who must have been in her late sixties got on,with a boy of about 12,who I think was her grandson. DP stood up and offered the WOMAN his seat,and the boy promptly sat down on it! I said to the boy 'The seat was offered to the lady,not you' to which she replied 'Oh it's ok,he can sit there'. I've told DP not to give up his seat to perfectly able children in future.

When I was pregnant we had been out all day with sil and snoring (9) we were all knackered as been our feet and my back was killing, got on the bus and I managed to get last seat, sil came up and asked me to give seat to do, I said no as back was painful. She was furious that I wouldn't and demanded a guy get up instead, which he did but I thought the attitude was disgusting
There was no reason her healthy son couldn't stand up. It's so entitled

limited was only agreeing with op and river that it was the norm for me and friends also and are nearly same age as river.
I've already told you you wouldn't get my seat anyway so you'd have to ask someone else

Janey50 Why did your DP offer the 60-something woman his seat? Did she appear frail? Why are you so angry that she offered it to her grandson instead?

My mother was 90 and still travelling on busy public transport until six weeks before her death. People offered her seats all the time - for which I am eternally grateful - but she often turned them down.

Many reasons for that:

1. She was fit and strong - more so than some people many years younger than her. She was lucky.

2, It was often inconvenient and more risky for her to battle her way to a seat and back out again rather than being able to stand for a few stops with her back to the glass partition near the doors. It is difficult for a slow and slightly infirm person to negotiate bags and feet. That's why we have priority seats, but sometimes priority people are already sitting it them.

In the situation you describe, my mother might have declined the seat and gratefully offered it to her great grandson, who has a hidden disability.

As you are also disabled, I can't understand your thinking. I'd hate to think that because of this woman's action you've told your DP never to give up his seat.

So do you think what you were told was right kali110? Would you ask your child, if you have one, to do the same?

Why wouldn't you give your seat to me? Not that I'd expect you to, but I am older than you.

limited you don't seem to understand how social conventions work. It's not about people's own individual personal experience, but what they also saw around them. When I was growing up in the 70s and 80s it was the norm to see kids give up their seats for adults. I travelled on public transport a lot and it wasn't just my family who expected kids to this. Other people on this thread have also said it was their experience.

But you seem to think that because it wasn't your experience you can't call it a social norm of the time. DH, same age as me, was never smacked as a child. Doesn't mean that it wasn't a social norm to small kids at that time, just because it didn't happen to him.

There is also a difference between a 10 yo giving up their seat for a 60yo and a 35yo giving up their seat for a 50yo. Don't be so obtuse.

(As an aside, I'm starting to get really fed up of being able to have kind of a debate with people on MN because they refuse to see beyond their own experience.)

I do understand social conventions RiverTam. It was your norm in your society to give up seats on public transport to adults, it was not mine. I don't disbelieve your experience and trust that you don't disbelieve mine. Neither experience is wrong, just different.

I would rather live in my world than yours. I was never smacked either. My parents were born in 1918 and 1923. The one that was born in 1923 was never smacked by her parents who were born in the 19th century. It has to start somewhere.

I'm not being obtuse when I ask what is the difference between a 10 year old giving up a seat for a 60 year old and a 35 year old giving up a seat for a 52 year old? Can you explain what it is?

With respect, I'd say I'm not the person who is refusing to see beyond her own experience. But it is your prerogative to continue to debate with me.

Agree with Janey. In my youth, it was unheard of for a child to take a seat if there were adults standing. It was all part of the ethos of showing respect for adults and a recognition that a very young child would sit on their adult's knee. Once kids were too old to sit on an adult's knee they were considered perfectly capable of standing for the journey. Sadly, respect for adults is not taught to most children these days as a matter of course as it was when I was a child. Is this progress?

Littlepleasures can you explain in what way you are worthy of respect apart from being older than other people?

I guess the Yorkshire Ripper is older than both of us but is he worthy of our respect?

the senior school head came down and said she had received a complaint about a girl in uniform who had not offered her seat on a bus and how we must always do this as it was good manners.

Why is that good?

limited i wouldn't give up my seat because i have disabilities nothing to do with ages or what i was taught.