Aibu not to offer to give up my seat?

[fatandold]

On a packed commuter tube carriage, I'm sitting in the "priority seat". It only just became available when we reached a station, and I was glad of the chance to sit down and it was closest to where I was standing. Currently ill with a bug and feeling like death, not that that is hugely relevant as I'm not pregnant or disabled to qualify for special treatment. If I hadn't sat there, someone else would have and nobody else appeared to be a "qualifying person".

So, a mum and little girl get on. Train becomes less packed. Girl looks about 8 yrs old, shoe size 1-2 (I'm good with shoes), and has a scooter. My instinct was to offer the girl my seat, but I dithered and the woman next to me offers her seat to the child, and the mum declines as they are getting off the next stop.

When I was a child, my mum made us get up to offer an adult a seat, regardless of whether said adult was vulnerable or in special need. This was the social convention because in those days you deferred to the older generation. When we were babies or toddlers my mum would have been given a seat and we would be on her lap. We would rarely have been offered a seat of our own. I can't remember at what age we were made to stand but probably from about 4 or 5.

So what is the cut off age or condition now? This girl was quite capable of standing, yet possibly because I have small children, and as a society we now defer to children's wants and needs far more than when I was a child, my first instinct was to offer her my seat.

I dithered with indecision paralysis, so lost the opportunity. Then I started to wonder if I actually should have offered it or not. Over to you, wise old MN.

I personally don't sit on the priority seats, and will prefer to sit elsewhere/stand. The people who need them the most won't often ask for them, and I'm too bleary at 6am to notice when someone needs a seat. Having said this, however, I am virtually always offered a seat because the super-early morning commute tends to be full of chivilris types, at least on my route.

Irrespective of priority seat I would offer to anyone who I judged needed it. So that includes little kids (probably not an average sized 8 years. Parents of little kids. Older people who look frail enough to welcome it and not be insulted. Pregnant people of it is 100 percent definite that they are with child. And indeed anyone else if they asked ( eg not obvious chronic pain condition).

bubble can't believe you sat your son on a random strangers lap shock

Why? What's the problem?

bubble can't believe you sat your son on a random strangers lap

Why? What's the problem?

I can't speak for anyone else, but my DS wouldn't have had a bar of sitting in a stranger's lap at 4. He was a lovely, chatty, friendly little fellow but always from the safety of my lap/my arms/my vicinity.

Cocktail, people can't stay at home every time they feel a bit unwell

Eevee - No, but OP says she feels 'like death'. She won't be doing much good at work if she does, and will be risking infecting lots of people. Doesn't sound like a little sniffle. Common sense...

Travelling on a packed train with a bug that makes you 'feel like death'? Whilst sitting in a priority seat that is likely to be used by an elderly or pregnant person after you. YABwildlyU (and selfish and thoughtless), unless of course you are sure that this bug is not contagious?

People outside London always seem amazed we have baby on board badges. They are a (free) badge provided by TFL.
tfl.gov.uk/forms/23479.aspx it makes people aware you would like a seat and saves any embarrassment. On a crowded train, it's not always easy to spot people who need a seat.

And yes, women in early pregnancy may need to sit down. Nausea, fainting, fatigue. If the train stops suddenly the lady may fall.

TFL is also trialing a badge tfl.gov.uk/campaign/please-offer-me-a-seat?intcmp=41947 for people with invisible disabilities too. I have been taking part in the trial and feedback has been mainly positive and they plan to roll them out in the New Year. Hopefully with more prominent posters and advertising. I have seen a few billboard posters around tube stations though.

I am offered a seat around 50% of the time. Around 25% of the time I ask and am offered a seat. Another 25% of the time I don't ask because it's so busy I can't get to a seat or I see people staring at it but no offers and don't feel comfortable asking.

Only on MN would people be so outraged at the thought of travelling on a train with a bug! How do you think tens of thousands of people get to work everyday? You can't take a day off every time you're ill.

Yeah that makes me laugh as well. Either theses people never get I'll or their jobs donto last long

I wouldn't offer my seat to an 8 year old unless I knew of or suspected disability.

You get countless children on packed commuter trains sitting on seats by themselves when they could easily sit on a parent's lap.

considering I sat on my mum's lap as a child I think these parents are selfish and entitled allowing children to have their own seat on a packed commuter train. Children often sit looking slightly smug in these situations too.

A child or student has to give up their seat for an adult UNLESS they have paid an adult fare and can prove it.

Not so long ago, I miscarried a much-wanted DC and had to get the train back from the hospital as our car was in the garage (great timing!). I also have an invisible disability which is a permanent problem with my ears which sometimes means I fall over a lot and get frequently dizzy.

I was sat in one of the fold-down seats at the end of the carriages by the doors, trying (and failing) not to cry. A family of 3 got on, the mother and 2 youngest were offered seats whilst the father stood with the eldest (looked about 6). He then turned to the carriage, pointed at me and said "you'd think she would offer he seat to people with kids, some people are so selfish". I turned to him and asked why he didn't just ask me for my seat, he wouldn't look at me, just turned to everyone else and started shaking his head and tutting.

I sat in the toilet and cried for the duration of my journey. I didn't even know you were supposed to offer seats to young children, pre-school, toddlers etc fair enough I would. I guess you learn something every day.

OzzieFem Do you mean by rules/law/whatever (from HAS to)?

I don't see how they could be. On most forms of public transport the fare doesn't pay for a seat, just travel, so how could it be argued that people who pay are entitled to a seat over those who travel free?

I thought paying a fare was a right to travel not a right for a seat. Unless it's been reserved. I'm not 100% on that though

DrQuinzel So sorry that happened to you

You didn't do anything wrong. A six year old standing up with his/her father to keep them safe isn't a priority. You were.

On a busy train, a small child is hugely vulnerable as people can see a gap and try to squash in, not realising there is a small person there. I'm always immensely grateful in those circumstances if someone is kind enough to offer her a seat. Equally, I would always put her on my lap if an elderly/pregnant/disabled person got on. As I said up thread, I think the unspoken rule is the most needy person (regardless of sex or age) gets the seat. And - as an aside - I've been amazed by the consideration and courtesy I've seen in London, even in busy situations.

dr u hat bloke who was rude to you was an arsehole should be ashamed of himself.

Natalia the vast majority of children I see sitting on seats are approx 6 upwards. That is not small in my book. Under 5 it's vastly different and of course they should have a seat.

i'd tend to offer if the child looked unable to reach the bars/handles- in this case it would normally mean that the child was small enough that the adult would sit down with the child on his/her lap and everyone would have more space standing.
I'd never ask though in these circumstances (i would if pregnant/disabled etc) as you have no right to a seat

It depends on safety for me. If its crowded and the child can't reach safety rails to hold on then I would, if it isn't very crowded and they can hold on safely probably not.

SuperFlyHigh. Agree it's a bit different for older children. But - while I would always ask my 7 year kid to stand for an elderly person or a pregnant woman, I wouldn't expect her to stand up for an adult just because they were an adult (as a pp suggested) as, in that situation, she is more vulnerable and less able to stand than most adults (include myself in that).

Definitely overthinking. YNBU. You are unwell. Of course you justified using the seat.

I'm disabled and will move for other disabled people if I see someone with crutches or a stick getting on. They always start by glaring at me and then when they see I start to get up and limp to another spare seat nearest to the front they always have that sheepish look where they want to say sorry but are too embarrassed.

If you'd got up and offered your seat for the 8yo and then promptly collapsed what would people have done then?

I have a 10yo and a 7yo with AS. I make them stand where necessary too.

I feel like death too. I've got bad asthma and picked up a chesty bug. But I'm a single parent and the only one available to take my kids to and from school. (Ex works long shifts at the hospital and there is no one else really). Sometimes we have to do things we would rather not do in an ideal world.

So what is the cut off age or condition now?

My only criterion is whether the person is less able to stand than me. I am a healthy adult, though going a little grey. I am perfectly able to stand and don't need young people to get up for me.

So, I'd stand for anybody who either asks or appears to have trouble standing. I don't factor age.