Man in the ladies loos AIBU?

[HairsprayBabe]

First apologies for typos or spelling errors I am on my phone.

I am currently at an even where 95% of the attendees are men. I just went to the ladies and saw a man coming out of the cubicle. I told him politely he should not have been in there. His response was "Fuck of love".

I am annoyed he was in the ladies in the first place but raging he felt he could speak to me like that! AIBU to think that men shouldn't go into the ladies loos?!

And what if there is no disabled toilet. Or the disabled toilet is single sex?

itsallgoingtobefine cross posted - very weird we used the same phrasing!! I was confused for a minute!

Rose - that would be sexual assault by penetration, not rape.

Why do we need unisex toilets? Ones for penis owners, one for vulva owners. Extras for unisex if required.

Men pose an undoubted threat to women. Check the numbers. Please inform yourself.

And it's a violation of women's boundaries, privacy and dignity. Some women won't be able to use the loo in public if there are men in there.

I'm not speaking for men, they may be fine with women traipsing in. That's their issue. I'm not a loo campaigner, I'm a feminist. Personally I wouldn't use a man's loo and I don't think it's acceptable.

Legally rape requires a penis.

If there is a particular reason they can't then they can make use of the disabled toilets.

Have you seen how busy the disabled loos are these days? especially when they join them with the baby change.

you can't have a toilet for women and males who don't rape.

You can be raped in many other locations than a public toilet. Unless we segregate men and women everywhere that argument really doesn't hold up. personally I'd rather lock the rapists up and let men and women go to the toilet in whatever toilet is most convenient.

Good for you. I think you're in the minority.

No one has said that all men will attack women. The man in the OP isn't being vilified for having a penis, he's being challenged for being hostile and aggressive when being (reasonabley imo) challenged for being in the women's toilets.

The message some posters are insisting on is that it's never ok to challenge men in this situation, and it is unreasonable to expect women-only facilities. I don't agree and I haven't seen any reasonable arguments as to why that should be the case.

And generally the rapists don't get locked up.

I dont get the problem

Desperate man uses the ladies loo (i dont like it...i have been desperate for the loo but i have always managed to find the right one. But fair enough...i suppose)

Surprised lady who has managed to find the right loo says " this is the ladies" ( fair enough, we all make mistakes in checking the right picture on the door...or that whole M and F thing can be confusing)

Desperate man says "oh sorry" or " sorry but i really needed to use this one"

Surprised lady goes and says "thats ok"

But nooooooo......complete fuckwit says "fuck off love"

No problem with the use of toilet, big problem with the rude fuckwit

Still pretty grim!

It's rediculous to think every man in the woman's is wanting to hurt you and to be honest if your that intimidated there is no way you would be saying anything - you would just leave and wait until he had gone.

Women are just as likely to be a threat just because it isn't rape doesn't mean it isn't there. And why is being in a loo (as said originally, one in the U.K. With proper doors USA is a totally different situation) any different to being alone with a random man at any other time? They're not in the cubicle with you? I would love to know the statistics for attacks against women in toilets separated by men and women, I guarantee the latter is higher

No women aren't just as likely to be a threat. They're really really not. There is evidence and everything. Maybe try a 5 second google before you say something you know nothing about?

Have you seen how busy the disabled loos are these days? especially when they join them with the baby change.

Then you should campaign for more disabled (or unisex) toilets, not for men to be able to use the womens toilets.

You can be raped in many other locations than a public toilet. Unless we segregate men and women everywhere that argument really doesn't hold up. personally I'd rather lock the rapists up and let men and women go to the toilet in whatever toilet is most convenient.

That is sadly correct, however that does not mean that few safe spaces women have should be denied to them. The problem with your "lock up rapists" theory (abysmal conviction rate aside) is that a rapist is only known after they are a rapist. How do you suggest we identify potential rapists and then keep them from womens' spaces?

I really can't understand people bemoaning the fact that men can't use female toilets? If I had a young daughter, say 8 or 9 yrs of age, I'd like to imagine I would allow her to use the ladies facilities on her own, however I would be massively uncomfortable with that if there was a man in there - it's not because 'all men are rapists' but because enough men are for it to be a worry for me. A 9yr old girl would stand not one fucking chance of escaping an adult male in a very confined space with only one exit route. But hey, fuck it, who gives a shiny shit about a young girl being able to feel comfortable when needing to use the toilet because ya know, men might -be so fucking entitled- want to use it despite having one of their own.

Oh this has really moved on... points to clarify, the loos has about 6 inches of space between each wall and the floor, same with the doof. Not floor to celing real walls.
I did not confront him rudely it was more surprise I said something along the lines of "oh should you be in the ladies?"
The loos were not on seperate floors and about equal distance from the conferance room in opposite directions.
There were long networking breaks throughout the day and the loos were never super busy at any point, e.g. no swarm for usage.

Women are just as likely to be a threat just because it isn't rape doesn't mean it isn't there

They really, really aren't. Did you see the evidence up thread that 99% of those convictwd of sexual assault are male?

And why is being in a loo (as said originally, one in the U.K. With proper doors USA is a totally different situation) any different to being alone with a random man at any other time? They're not in the cubicle with you?

Many women would be uncomfortable being alone with a strange man in any situation. In a toilet with your genitals exposed and your knickers around your ankles one tends to feel more vulnerable though.

I would love to know the statistics for attacks against women in toilets separated by men and women, I guarantee the latter is higher

You are saying that more women are attacked in toilets by women is that correct? If that is correct (I'd like to see the evidence) how do you think that might change if.men were allowed.free access. to the womens toilets?

Do the "it's all in your heads, you're paranoid" posters really not have a clue about the gendered nature of sexual assault? Yes, women sometime commit sexual assault - but nowhere near in the same proportions as men do.

David Lisak interview with NPR This guy is a criminal psychologist, whose lifetime study has been undetected rapists on American university campuses.

Lisak started with a simple observation. Most of what we know about men who commit rape comes from studying the ones who are in prison. But most rapes are never reported or prosecuted. So Lisak, at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, set out to find and interview men he calls "undetected rapists." Those are men who've committed sexual assault, but have never been charged or convicted.

He found them by, over a 20-year period, asking some 2,000 men in college questions like this: "Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated [on alcohol or drugs] to resist your sexual advances?"

Or: "Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn't want to because you used physical force [twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.] if they didn't cooperate?"

About 1 in 16 men answered "yes" to these or similar questions.

1 in 16 is a hell of a high percentage in my view. Now, yes, the other 15 out of 16 are perfectly nice people (I have lots of male friends btw, who I am quite happy to be alone with). But the thing is when it comes to encountering a strange man, I have no idea whether he's one of the 15 out of 16 nice ones, or the 1 in 16 sexual predators. They do not come with the mark of Cain stamped across their forehead. So if I encounter a strange man in a women's toilet when he has no good reason to be there (no queue for the men's), I am going to be suspicious. If he is then downright aggressive in response to my asking why he's there, then I'm going to be even more suspicious.

I envy those of you who live in this lovely protected bubble where rape is as rare as hen's teeth. I know too many of my close female friends who've been raped (and a smaller number of male friends - raped by other men, incidentally, not women with strap-ons) to live in that lovely protected bubble.

Venus there are millions of stories on google of both attacks by men and women.

I have felt intimidated on more occasions of other women than of men. Sorry!

A 14 year old lad with his mother is an exception I'm sure we'd all allow. He isn't yet an adult, and you are with him. An elderly man on water tablets? Way closer to the line. I wouldn't want him in there - if he is on tablets can't he make sure he gets to the loo in good time? So no, I don't think it's more complicated than that, to be honest.

Wow thanks you for your magnimity. What if actually he's run ahead of me and entered the toilet before me (does this now especially on constipation meds). Would he then not be allowed?

and seriously I can't believe anyone would rather someone wet themselves that you dealt with being a bit uncomfortable (because he has a penis and statistically therefore he is more likely to commit a violent crime) for a few minutes....

The time I'm thinking of the poor gentleman found himself 10 mins walk from ANY other toilet of the right gender. He only just made it to the broken gents in time.

And yet telling someone to fuck off love is the height of rudeness and unpleasantness.

I am one of those ridiculous women who be intimidated if there was an adult male in the ladies. And yes, I would leave rather than use the toilet.

Its not just toilets. I won't get in a lift with a strange man if I am alone. I've left a basket of shopping in the middle of a shop before now if a man is standing too close behind me.

Yeah, it's ridiculous but that's post traumatic stress for you. Being so over sensitised because of a trauma that things which seem normal to others trigger a massive stress response. My PTSD was brought on by being sexually abused for 2 years as a teenager.

I'm fucking tired of living my life in fear, I am tired of women having their safe spaces and rights eroded just because the menz needs come first. Why is it so unreasonable to expect to use a toilet without feeling threatened and scared? If you have a penis, use the men's room.

Many women would be uncomfortable being alone with a strange man in any situation. In a toilet with your genitals exposed and your knickers around your ankles one tends to feel more vulnerable though.

But your not though, your in a cubicle and a lot of cubicles now are mini rooms, especially in high end hotels and pubs. The only shared area is the sinks.

Everyone makes this a sexual thing and I don't understand that, yes I'm sure more women have attacked other women in toilets than men, doesn't have to be sexual. Or are you suggesting women don't physically attack each other?

And if you can't use a toilet on your own and there is no unisex toilet ( some disabled toilets are not unisex), what do you do?

Sorry that should have read than men attacking women in the ladies.

The only reason more women may have attacked women in toilets than men (and I'd query even that) is because men generally aren't in women's toilets. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Men undoubtedly are responsible for the vast majority of violent and sexual crime. They also have a physical advantage over women so are more intimidating. They have no place in a women's safe space.