Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

for thinking this is demeaning?

248 replies

baconandeggies · 05/11/2016 16:37

The word 'menial', as in "He has a menial job"

It seems a bit loaded to me... Implies it's "less important" and can be looked down upon. Surely it comes from the same root as demeaning anyway?

There's nothing wrong with having a more 'manual' job..

Reminds me that a flatmate once exclaimed "I'd never marry a man who had a menial job, like a dustbin man, or a cleaner or something"

Why not just say 'manual' job, if you must describe it as anything other than the actual job title.

So does describing someone's job as 'menial' sound judgey, or AIBU?

OP posts:
60sname · 06/11/2016 23:34

I get it, roundabout , to you there are no low-skilled jobs.

AlexaTwoAtT · 07/11/2016 00:21

I get it too. Life is simple on the roundabout.

roundaboutthetown · 07/11/2016 05:34

Of course there are low skilled jobs, I just disagree that there are any totally unskilled jobs and disagree that actually running a shop is either unskilled or low skilled. I also disagree that caring for the old or infirm is unskilled or low skilled, or cleaning a hospital effectively is unskilled or low skilled. Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of the word skill?

roundaboutthetown · 07/11/2016 05:46

And I certainly notice when people are insufficiently skilled for their supposedly low skilled/non-exisistent skill requirement jobs!

sterlingcooper · 07/11/2016 07:10

I think its all about context.

It is probably an indicator of a not very nice person who, upon learning that someone they are talking to is a cleaner/bin man/factory worker says 'oh so a menial job then'.

But there are other ways to use the word more objectively, not in reference to a specific individual, that are fine. "He did a series of menial jobs to earn money" "There are some menial aspects to this job role" "I need to find some menial task to do to keep me occupied" "The work is fairly menial but it has its rewards".

roundaboutthetown · 07/11/2016 07:33

As for the term "low-skilled" - what do people think they mean when they say it? That you don't have to be very good at what you do to satisfy the requirements of the job?

chocolatemademefat · 07/11/2016 07:59

My husband does what could be described as menial work. This is after years working his way up to a high powered and stressful position. He loves the job he has now and wouldn't swap it for his previous career. Luckily we can afford for him to make this choice by doing without a lot of things we didn't need anyway. I hate to hear work described as menial - we need all sorts of workers in society but due to the general lack of respect for people nowadays its deemed okay to put labels on things like jobs without considering how necessary they are.

60sname · 07/11/2016 08:22

As for the term "low-skilled" - what do people think they mean when they say it? That you don't have to be very good at what you do to satisfy the requirements of the job?

Low-skilled in this context is a description of the role, not the person. I.e. the tasks that need to be carried do not require a lot of training.

Whether the person holding the job is competent at it is another question entirely.

And I certainly notice when people are insufficiently skilled for their supposedly low skilled/non-exisistent skill requirement jobs!

If someone is incompetent at their job that doesn't necessarily mean the job is taxing...

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 07/11/2016 08:37

Wasn't legitimate when used to describe children used to mean legal - so legitimate children were legally recognised as the father's child but illegitimate ones weren't.

Brain surgery as a career is valued higher than sweeping the streets. It takes many years of training and a certain level of intelligence. But that doesn't make the person performing either role better or worse - like it or not, some jobs will always be valued higher than others.

Menial is a word used to describe a low skill job but it IS a value judgement.

I know you are coming from a good place OP but you are effectively saying you would like people to think a certain way - all lovely in your world but a little dangerous, is it not?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 07/11/2016 08:41

Low skilled refers to the amount or difficulty of the skills. For example, someone who sweeps the streets needs to know how to operate a broom. A brain surgeon needs to know the intricacies of the human body.

It doesn't mean the John the surgeon is nicer or worth more as a person than Bill the street sweeper (although I know which one I would rather be with in the event of a zombie apocalypse Grin) but surely you can see the difference between a highly and low skilled job?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 07/11/2016 08:42

In fact I'm starting to see shades of 1984 in the OP Grin

BlindAssassin1 · 07/11/2016 08:46

My husband does what could be described as menial work. This is after years working his way up to a high powered and stressful position. He loves the job he has now and wouldn't swap it for his previous career.

Me too. Much more satisfaction than in previous more prestigious roles.

You can tell a lot about a person seeing how they treat someone with a supposed 'menial' job. Plus, I've meet so many people with very well thought of jobs but I know wouldn't be able to cope doing what I do (mostly dealing with the general public).

blitheringbuzzards1234 · 07/11/2016 08:48

Well yes, menial implies that the job isn't important. We can't all be brain surgeons. Would those people like to live in a world where there are no jobs like that? Bins still need to be emptied, streets swept of litter, schools/hospitals/factories etc all need to be cleaned and the world would be a shittier/dirtier place as so few pick up after themselves.

I've worked at each end of the spectrum. Some people look down their noses at cleaners as if they're barely human but others are happy to have an intelligent conversation about all sorts of subjects with their 'minions'.

roundaboutthetown · 07/11/2016 08:59

The amount of training required for a role depends on the person. Grin I'm not convinced high/low skilled refers solely to the amount or difficulty of the skills in people's minds. After all, I have all the skills required to play tennis, but I'm not a highly skilled tennis player like Andy Murray and however hard I trained, I wouldn't become that skilled. Yet anyone can play tennis, so you could say it's low skilled. You wouldn't think of saying that to Andy Murray, though. So, it IS a value judgement of the job, IMO, to describe it as low skilled - it IS saying that it doesn't matter whether or not you are particularly good at it, or suggesting that anyone could do it brilliantly. And on that basis, I don't want a low-skilled hospital cleaner, or childcare worker, or administrative assistant. Yes, most people could sweep streets, so it does not require a great variety of skills to do well, but talking of sweeping, most people are far more sweeping than they ought to be about what constitutes a low skilled and/or menial job.

ThursdayLastWeek · 07/11/2016 09:07

My favourite is when the kind of person who uses the word 'menial' as derogatory complains about the shop assistant/Barista/cleaner.

Most people do notice when a supposedly low skilled job isn't performed adequately. which implies there must be some skill required!

FerretFred · 07/11/2016 09:12

If you're in a menial job and find it demeaning, put some effort in and find something you don't feel embarrassed about.

If you're happy in that job and realise that there is more to life than some fancy arse title crack on.

Personally I find the most boring people in the world are those whose only sense of self worth is the job they are in.

AlexaTwoAtT · 07/11/2016 09:44

BlindAssassin1

"My husband does what could be described as menial work. This is after years working his way up to a high powered and stressful position. He loves the job he has now and wouldn't swap it for his previous career.

Me too. Much more satisfaction than in previous more prestigious roles.

You can tell a lot about a person seeing how they treat someone with a supposed 'menial' job. Plus, I've meet so many people with very well thought of jobs but I know wouldn't be able to cope doing what I do (mostly dealing with the general public)."

It's hard to judge situations like this when posts are so vague - and it is fair enough to be vague, btw. However, I cannot envisage a situation like this. High status counts for a lot.

AlexaTwoAtT · 07/11/2016 09:50

"FerretFred

If you're in a menial job and find it demeaning, put some effort in and find something you don't feel embarrassed about.

If you're happy in that job and realise that there is more to life than some fancy arse title crack on.

Personally I find the most boring people in the world are those whose only sense of self worth is the job they are in."

All the turning and twisting in the world will not change the fact that your job defines you. That is why people ask what you do. As for self-worth, your job often plays a huge part in giving you that feeling about yourself.

Original poster
baconandeggies · 07/11/2016 10:05

you are effectively saying you would like people to think a certain way - all lovely in your world but a little dangerous, is it not?

Don't put words into my mouth. My AIBU was "Does describing someone's job as 'menial' sound judgey"

And I'm pleased to have received responses both for and against. I thought I'd be the only one who thought it sounded a bit judgemental, actually.

But people can say what they like!

OP posts:
OhhBetty · 07/11/2016 10:31

I've been told on many occasions that my job is menial. I do find it derogatory. I'm a carer. I am also responsible for dispensing medication. I work in a care home and have genuinely saved one persons life three times (they are diabetic and had a hypo). I have also both successfully and unsuccessfully performes CPR on people. Not many people I know could do that.

Some people are just ignorant and/ot nasty. I've also been called uneducated. I have a good degree from a great university but I just love my job and I'm aiming to become a manager some day.

Some jobs just come with a stigma attached to them which is absolutely ridiculous. It's just a way to keep people down. All jobs are worthwhile and important. They all mean something to someone. No matter how big or small they are perceived to be.

AlexaTwoAtT · 07/11/2016 11:08

But won't becoming manager one day take you away from the hands-on part of the job you say you love?

OhhBetty · 07/11/2016 11:30

Not in the care home I work in. Our manager regularly helps out on the floor. Also, as a single parent I would like to make more than minimum wage one day for myself and my son which I don't think is a bad thing. I also have various health conditions which mean I will not always be able to do a very physical job. So yes, one day my health will prevent me from doing parts of the job I love. That will be a very sad day for me thanks.

Floggingmolly · 07/11/2016 11:32

I'm aiming to become a manager some day.

The fact that you had to qualify what you do like that really does sound like this isn't my real job, of course. It's what I'm doing until I get a proper managerial position, OhhBetty, don't you think?
Slight touch of irony there...

OhhBetty · 07/11/2016 11:35

See above, I have helth conditions meaning there will become a day when I am unable to do the job I currently do. Also, I think having aspirations doesn't make me a bad person or mean I love my job any less

OhhBetty · 07/11/2016 11:36

I'd rather move up in a sector I love than be unable to work or have to move sectors just because of my illness. I will not be beaten by it.