Confused about attitudes to prams on buses

[5FeetOfWater]

I know this can be a sensitive topic but I'd like some honest opinions.

I get the bus twice a day with 15-month-old. I usually park buggy in the space where the fold-down seats are (not the wheelchair space opposite, I know wheelchair users have priority and if I used this space I'd always give it up if someone needed it).

There are often 2 or 3 prams on the bus, sometimes 4. And almost every day I hear people complaining 'in my day we used to walk from - to - with the prams' (approx 45-min walk) 'look at all those prams, we never took our prams on the bus' 'why don't they fold their prams' etc.
I could understand this attitude if bus was crowded but it's generally half empty so the prams aren't in the way.
Yet people still sit on the fold-down seats when they can see prams are getting on. Yesterday I politely said
'Excuse me please, I need to put my buggy here' (at least 8 other seats free)
Lady moved to a seat 1m away with much muttering and glaring.

I always give up my seat if needed and avoid the priority seats as I'm aware people with walking aids and shopping trolleys need the extra space. But on some buses the fold-up seats have a sign above saying 'please give up this space to parents with prams and pushchairs'. There are 4 priority seats behind this area with space for walking aids.

I know I could fold, but it's safer to have DD strapped in. She's only just walking and I'd struggle to hold her and carry folded pushchair and nursery bags/shopping/my work bags. I often see mums with a toddler and a baby in pram really struggling to fit pram it because no-one wants to move.

AIBU??

How is a woman on two crutches, rightfully and politely asking for someone to give up their seat equated to telling them they're an abysmal human being?

I'm young and have hidden disabilities and will sit at the front as I'm in excruciating pain some days. I will still get up if I see someone with crutches getting on and hobble off to sit or stand somewhere else. I've done that twice this week already.

I don't get this at all. YANBU, op. I'm vociferous about people refusing to fold/move buggies to accommodate wheelchairs or for disabled people in priority seating. This doesn't seem to be the case though.

If I get on a bus and someone is blocking priority seats (I am disabled) with a buggy, I don't mutter under my breath. I politely ask for a seat. Although I would hope that a person in a non priority seat would offer me one to save a mum with a buggy the hassle of folding.

For fucks sake, some people are weird. Ignore them, OP. As long as you're not ramming the wheels into people's ankles (even if they deserve it!) or refusing to move for a person using a wheelchair, you're fine. :)

People do not ever deserve to be rammed by the wheels of your monster pram. Oh yeah, it's a joke, is it?

You're not being unreasonable and to be honest this seems alien to me. The bus service where I live is exceptionally good, there is generally a space for one pram and another space for one wheelchair. A second pram may get on if theres no wheelchair user, but will be expected to get off or fold it (buggie) if a wheelchair gets on. On older buses there may be just once space, free to pram/ wheelchair user who gets on first. There can only ever be one or two prams on at one time (same with wheelchairs), anyone else will be expected to wait for next bus or to fold it up. As it's so uniform everyone knows and gets on with this (tho not to suggest everyone is happy 100% of the time), and I think it's a great system. It's crazy that anyone would be narky about someone getting on with a pram. It can't be helped!

As if you are going to quit on a bus with a baby, unstrap him, fold and store the pram, have baby on

Oops. Get, not quit.

.... Have baby on your knee on the jolting bus, then unfold the pram and strap him back in once its your stop

Ridiculous to think it.

But I don't live in Central London, I'm sure there's different rules there.

Alexa it was a joke, sorry if you don't understand sarcasm. back at you. I said I was disabled; I can barely move myself, let alone a pram. I haven't been on a bus in about 5 years.

If London did not have rules, the mega prams would completely clutter up public transport.

If it was a joke, crashdoll, it was not amusing.

On the rare occasions someone has got on in a wheelchair, I've got off and waited for another bus. No drama

Problem is, not everybody does this. And more people than you might thin, sadly, think that prams should have precedence. It's shocking, but you can see evidence of that mindset on this thread, and every other MN thread on the topic.

On older buses there may be just once space, free to pram/ wheelchair user who gets on first

No, a wheelchair user should ALWAYS have priority over a pram.

let's go over it again - With a buggy, most users have the ability to fold and sit in a normal seat. Wheelchair users to state the bleedin' obvious don't.

"On older buses there may be just once space, free to pram/ wheelchair user who gets on first"

That is the sort of attitude to others - especially disabled others - no one wants.

Gawd, there are some miserable fuckers on here. OP didn't do anything wrong, I'm not sure why she's had a bashing from a select few. She wasn't with a posse of mums and their 10 prams. She didn't say she would refuse to fold nor did she say she'd use her pram to run over disabled people or other commuters.

crashdoll I think part of the problem is that these sorts of questions arise regularly here and elsewhere (Facebook for example) and there is always the contingent who are extremely blinkered and selfish about the priority for those with disabilities and who spout on with a version of the statements such as

"First on gets the priority" (actually illegal)
"I can't fold my buggy"
"Children should have priority"

All versions of resisting the legal & humane understanding that disabled people have no choice about their disabilities, whereas parents with buggies do have options/choices.

So I suspect people are just a bit touchy.

Custard I'll be the first person arguing and insisting that prams do not have a priority over wheelchair spaces or to block seats which I did say in my first post. However, the OP wasn't doing this. She was simply on public transport with her buggy.

If someone needs the priority fold-down seats, they need to ask. I've been there. My disability used to be invisible and I had to ask and no, it doesn't feel nice but people don't have x-ray vision. I still have to ask even though I'm either in a wheelchair or on crutches that that's another story! My point is that the parents with buggies, in general, aren't doing anything wrong by being on buses on trains. If they then are twats, by all means, slate away. I'll be first in line, I can promise you!

mega prams would completely clutter up public transport

This is an example of the sort of attitude I encounter regularly. That prams are somehow 'cluttering up' the bus even when there are plenty of empty seats. Prams are not the same as giant suitcases or other luggage. They're for transporting (and safely restraining) babies and toddlers who may otherwise squirm off laps, run around, fall over etc. What if you have child on lap or seat next to you and bus stops suddenly? Isn't it safer to have them strapped in?

The luggage rack is small and shallow and usually full of luggage.

My buggy takes up 2 fold-down seat spaces and doesn't block the aisle.

I've never encountered anyone who hasn't vacated the wheelchair space for a wheelchair user.

*Alexa, Custard
*
Please read my post again, because I didn't say what you are suggesting I did. I said that when there is one space available, it is available to a wheelchair user or pram - whoever happens to get on the bus when the space is free. I didn't say that if a pram has the space they would have over a wheelchair user who should want to get on later. I obviously didn't make it clear - because I didn't think I had to - that if the space is occupied by a pram and a wheelchair user is getting on, the pram would be expected to fold or to get off.

That prams are somehow 'cluttering up' the bus even when there are plenty of empty seats. Prams are not the same as giant suitcases or other luggage

No but you can have a Mcclaren foldable buggy, no need for the huge things parents seem to think are compulsory these days. I had one that was suitable from birth. I probably still got in people's way with it but not anything like the same extent as parents do now now. I am sure they are still available, my ds is only 14.

Mclaren buggys are awful, those small wheels are totally impractacle for stairs or rough ground and the basket doesnt hold much in the way of shopping. They also used to tip up easily.
Just googled them and they havent changed much.
You taking up just as much room with it folded and emptied out of shopping and baby pataphenalia. They are only any good for loading into the back of the car.

What pisses me of is when someone parks an empty pushchair in the space. And I have seen poor mums with little baby's miss the bus because of an empty pushchair taking up space. I decided I can't be arsed with the madness of buggy on buses to much stress. So I now wear both my children younger 1 on front older on back. And go up stairs.

Yes 100% agree buggy need folding if a wheel chair gets on.

I do wonder how we all managed 20-30 years ago without dedicated pram parks on buses, presumably we just all stayed at home - all those trips out must be in my imagination.

On the plus side, disabled people can now actually use public transport, something that was denied to them back then.

That's very true. But back in my day thing is unfair I think. Alot has probably changed for the better and we all use it.

I've never encountered anyone who hasn't vacated the wheelchair space for a wheelchair user.

I have. More than once.

Alot has probably changed for the better
Oh, absolutely, don't disagree, but in some situations we've seem to gone too far. You can read it above: I will use a cumbersome and unwieldy pushchair on the bus because there is now space, stuff everyone else.
Why bother buying such a thing in the first place?

BTW, back then a pram looked like this, no way on earth would you ever get it on a bus.

The only time I tried to use a bus in London (with a Maclaren, FWIW), I couldn't get on the bus as there were tourists with four of the largest suitcases I've ever seen on it, and we couldn't fit on.