To think that if you become a childminder you should not just take 'easy' children

[Introvertedbuthappy]

I go back to work in December and decided on a childminder to look after my baby for the three days a week I'll be working. As I started looking in September I was asked to pay £150 a month until then to hold the place (1 day a week's fees) and as part of that could obviously use that day as childcare (as it was already being paid for). All fine.
Since then he has been there 3.5 days (CM wanted to cut one day short to go on holiday at a day's notice). On Tuesday she called to say that she will no longer look after my 6.5 month old as he is 'a difficult baby', 'cries a lot' and 'needs a lot of attention'. She also described an incident where her 3 year old got so frustrated with my son's crying her child 'screamed in his face, which was distressing not only for yoyr son, but myself and my daughter'. She has 'never seen a baby like it' (not in a positive way).
I am both devastated and angry. He is generally a happy chap, does like a lot of stimulation, but is happy to roll around/jump in his jumparoo/chase a pack of wipes round, but does obviously need to be picked up sometimes (ie like a typical baby). He doesn't sleep much but is generally not grumpy with it.
I'm upset about a number of things - the screaming incident, the language used about my son to turn down the contract and the fact I've pissed £150 down the drain to hold a place I can't take up.
So, AIBU or should she have attempted to settle him better before branding him a 'difficult' baby?

Reading between the lines I wonder if the problem is her DD can't cope with having a baby around, is jealous, has screamed in his face, this has shaken her up and she doesn't want him in case the DD hits him or something. But she can't blame her child, or her not managing the situation so she is blaming your DC. Not that she should blame her child, of course, she is only 3.

I'd probably feel like being a bit PA "I am SO sorry your child screaming in my baby's face was upsetting for you and her" sort of thing but that wouldn't be helpful.

She has provided care the OP didn't need

But I'll ask again, is it not usual to charge during the initial settling/trial period? And if so, do all childminders refund any money paid for a trial period if they decide not to take the child on? - genuine question as I don't know what would usually happen.

Her dd can't cope and so she can't cope. Nothing to do with your baby's behaviour.

At least you know early on rather than further down the line and not knowing how he was being treated all along.

I would expect a settling in period to be paid for in the circumstance that I then got to make a decision about whether to use the service.

I do not think it is acceptable to charge someone for a trial period (when it is you on trial) and then refuse to offer a service but keep the money from the trial.

It creates all k8nds of perverse incentives if people charge for trial periods and then pull out and keep the money.

It looks an awful lot like a scam.

A trial period is for both sides - for the CM to see if she wants to work with the family/child as well as for the parents.

I don't think expecting to be paid for the time she provided care is so terrible. If she had taken a deposit, done nothing and then withdrawn the offer of a place, then obviously she would owe you the money back, but you did have some childcare at what sounds like a very reasonable rate. I'm sure you must have had some benefit from those days. If you did a job for a few days, gave notice because it didn't suit you after all, and your boss said in that case you don't get paid because we only took you on because we thought you would stay longer, that would be daft.

I think her explanation as to why she has thrown in the towel is pretty close to saying that she found it more difficult than she anticipated, and that she did not expect that reaction from her own child - both tactlessly expressed, but nevertheless honest and better said than hidden.

Think your self lucky. She sounds rubbish fancy letting her daughter do that! At least you know he wasn't happy for whatever reason put it down to experience and move on . Whatever you do don't fight to keep him there. She may even be lying because she just doesn't want to take on a baby anymore? But I'd get a refund and explain you'll take it further if not

Why would she get a refund on the hours she has used?

But the hours used were settling in, which is contingent on there being a place to settle in to. What she has actually got for her money is ad hoc childcare, which she didn't need. The money paid was for a service which was mis-sold to her, which sounds to me like obtaining money by deception.

Unless OP knew it was a trial and there was a possibility of not getting a place with the CM and therefore it was a risk she took willingly. I am not getting the impression that OP was informed of this, and had taken it as dfinite that a place was offered.

This is why I think she is due a refund.

Unless OP knew it was a trial and there was a possibility of not getting a place with the CM and therefore it was a risk she took willingly. I am not getting the impression that OP was informed of this, and had taken it as dfinite that a place was offered

It will depend very much on what the contract says - the OP hasn't mentioned anything about the contract at all, so it's hard to say

She should have looked after the child on a temporary basis until you had found an alternative. Or at least given you 2 weeks notice. She's entitled to accept easier children and look after her own children's interests.

It is probably a lucky escape on your part. At least she admitted to struggling.

I'm setting up as a trial period CM.

Pay me for chilcare you don't need to retain me until you do, at which point I'll tell you to fuck off and keep your money.

I assumed the place was offered. The contract we had was regarding the place from December (ie 3 days a week). Stupidly I had nothing regarding the day a week payment to hold the place until then. The policies I was given regarding settling were about the 2 hour one off, where either party could terminate contract without notice.
CM has said I do not have to pay this month (ie November) as she will not have him back.
I would absolutely not have paid £150 whilst on SMP for ad hoc childcare. The reason I did was on promise of a place in December. I used the time available as I was paying regardless - I am not going to pay a CM for nothing. Luckily I did or presumably I would have been left even more in the lurch (although with a KIT day organised for 2 weeks time I'm in a bit of a panic regardless).

Tricky then, as the contract doesn't say either way. It sounds like the contract has effectively started, which presumably then means either side needs to give notice to quit. So technically you are liable to pay another month (or two weeks, or whatever the notice period is).
Although she has said you don't need to pay that - just as well !

I'd just chalk it up to experience - not ideal, but presumably if you hadn't paid her, you'd have been paying a retainer to someone else.

I had similar situation with my first born. She gave us notice after the third week. She said he needed one to one! Which was rubbish. Subsequent child care said how easy he was to care for. She ignored his routine which she said she could stick to before we placed him with her. We lost money too. I refused to pay for her holiday which was part of her notice period but she threatened the small claims court!! She was totally unethical in her dealings. Still makes my blood boil now.

I think people are confusing a retainer with a deposit.

A deposit is paid to reserve a place at a childminder or nursery setting that is not currently available, but will become available by the time it's needed. It's refundable in the event that the place does not become available or the parent choses not to use it. It usually counts towards the first invoice if the place is taken up.

A retainer is paid if the place is available immediately and the parent wishes to hold it open with a view to taking the place when needed. It's not refundable: the childminder or nursery is agreeing not to give that place to another child and the retainer compensates them for their loss of earnings. Usually the place is available to be used during that time for settling in sessions or for ad hoc childcare but the parent may be asked to pay full fee for the hours used.

It does depend on the contract, but it sounds to me as though this was a retainer and therefore not refundable.

If she's only been childminding a year, then she's still relatively new to the job and finding her feet. I agree she hasn't handled this well, but I'd put that down to inexperience rather than incompetence.

There's also no evidence that she's a rubbish childminder; she's simply admitted defeat over this particular child and it's to her credit that she's been honest about this. Both childminders and nurseries will do this, not because they are scamming parents, but because they recognise that they cannot offer the care a family deserves.
I have a child with me whose nursery admitted his needs would be better met by a childminder and, yes, his mum was devastated because it felt like a rejection.

A settling in period is designed for all parties - parent, childminder and child - to decide whether or not the arrangement is going to work. In fact, the childminder hasn't made the decision: the baby has! For whatever reason, he has decided he doesn't want to be there and has screamed his way through the hours that the childminder has had him. I wonder if people truly know what that feels like? And what it might feel like to a 3 year old child?

This childminder has quickly decided that she can't continue and that's always disappointing when it happens. Hopefully the next setting will be a better fit.

An honest operator would return payment given to retsin a place that was not forthcoming.

A competent childminder doesn't ail to settle a 6 month old baby in 3 sessions.

Everyone who might nake the mistake of dealing with this charlatan needs to know she is shit at what she does and a gouger.

Yes, you'd have been paying a retainer to somebody who was capable of providibg the service she was being retained for.

Sorry but I would report her to Ofsted. Part of the eyfs is inclusion. She has discriminated against your child because he is not an "easy" baby.
She really shouldn't be working with children.

Rubbish, Doinitfine! Didn't you read the definition of a retainer? Or did you not understand it?
If it's a retainer, no refund is due.

And some children and babies take longer to settle than others. It depends on their temperament, the number of days they attend and other factors.

I understand whatva retainer is for.

It is to protect the retained should their services no longer be required.

It is absolutely not in the spirit of a retainer to accept one for a service you did not go on to provide.

You can do business honestly, or you can gouge people.

This incompetent woman is a gouger.

The two often go hand in hand because people who are good at what they do don't need to rip people off to make money.

I took him to a nursery near my work today and I was there in the baby room with him for an hour doing paperwork while he played. In that time a nursery worker only had to pick him up once for a cuddle, and that was only when he toppled over from sitting trying to grab some bells. He loved the toys and everything going on. The nursery workers expressed surprise at my story. He certainly didn't 'scream the house down' and stopped crying when picked up (was fine after a few minutes to lay down/play with instruments again).
Luckily I think he will be happier at nursery. So perhaps this is for the best. I still don't appreciate the language used about my son, the fact that the wipes I supplied for his sensitive skin were not used, the fact that her child was able to get into his face to scream at him, the fact that she dumped his stuff on my doorstep rather than hand them over in person and the fact that I wasted £150 on pointless childcare.

If you want to work as a childminder, you need to learn not to be rude about the children you are caring for... But then as she goes on holiday with pretty much no notice, dumps people's possessions on their doorsteps (some of which aren't even the right possessions...) and tells her clients that their babies are abnormally demanding, she clearly doesn't take it seriously, anyway.

I'm pretty shocked to be honest at how unprofessional this childminder has been. Also that her child has screamed in your babies face. My children cuddle my youngest mindees when they cry. I registered as a childminder a little over a year ago. I have had children settling in and being very upset who are now all very happy. I also took on a four month old four months ago and it is hard work. Took him about a month to settle and get into routines. He comes to my house three days a week and sometimes just wants a cuddle and carried around. This is fine and I accommodate him most of the time. Your baby is just being a baby. They are all different and being a childminder she should be well aware of this. You got a lucky break. She seems to be in the wrong profession if she can't handle children of all ages.

Ps I would have refunded your £150