To think that if you become a childminder you should not just take 'easy' children

[Introvertedbuthappy]

I go back to work in December and decided on a childminder to look after my baby for the three days a week I'll be working. As I started looking in September I was asked to pay £150 a month until then to hold the place (1 day a week's fees) and as part of that could obviously use that day as childcare (as it was already being paid for). All fine.
Since then he has been there 3.5 days (CM wanted to cut one day short to go on holiday at a day's notice). On Tuesday she called to say that she will no longer look after my 6.5 month old as he is 'a difficult baby', 'cries a lot' and 'needs a lot of attention'. She also described an incident where her 3 year old got so frustrated with my son's crying her child 'screamed in his face, which was distressing not only for yoyr son, but myself and my daughter'. She has 'never seen a baby like it' (not in a positive way).
I am both devastated and angry. He is generally a happy chap, does like a lot of stimulation, but is happy to roll around/jump in his jumparoo/chase a pack of wipes round, but does obviously need to be picked up sometimes (ie like a typical baby). He doesn't sleep much but is generally not grumpy with it.
I'm upset about a number of things - the screaming incident, the language used about my son to turn down the contract and the fact I've pissed £150 down the drain to hold a place I can't take up.
So, AIBU or should she have attempted to settle him better before branding him a 'difficult' baby?

[harverina]

I also think you have possibly had a lucky escape and it's best to find out now. Very frustrating though that you have paid money and wasted time but it's good that you know before you go back to work.

I think childminders have to choose children that will fit in with the service as a whole - so they need to consider the group of children they currently have and what type of child would fit in and be manageable. But she should have considered that before she offered a space. Most 6 month olds have the same needs and your DC doesn't sound unusual! I would expect to have to hold a 6 month old for huge portions of the day so would need to think carefully about this compared to the other kids that I was minding at that point in time

[Horsepower9]

2cent I don't profess to know more than anyone else on this thread and How have I made a blanket suggestion (an wtf Is that anyway?)
I haven't presumed anything. I have given my opinion Like everyone else here based on my personal experience. You don't have to like it or read it and you don't have to personally insult me by calling me sanctimonious, presumptuous and bizarre.
Since when had it been sanctimonious to have experienced two ways of doing something and then saying which one you found best for yourself? Quite frankly I think it is you that is being offensive.

[drspouse]

I don't just send/sent my children to the CM and nursery because I work. I send them because they get things that they can't get from me. And I'm educated, crafty, and love doing outdoorsy stuff.

At the CM my DD now in particular gets a lot of attention from a multi-generational family. In our house there is just me, DH and DS who is only 2 1/2 years older than her. She gets spoiled rotten by, and loves playing with, the CM's school age grandchildren and her grown up son, and not only is she a substitute granny but once DD got used to the beard, the CM's husband is a substitute granddad. DS got a lot of his one to one attention on the fine motor skills he found difficult from her, too - she was much better at providing a routine to practice them than I was. Maybe I should have tried harder, but I can't move a large family into our home, and I am just not the kind of person to provide some kinds of routine.

At nursery they have access to large scale play facilities, the same children to grow familiar with week to week, and many much more creative things to do than I could possibly provide. They have specialists that come in that don't do private classes, they do large scale art and cooking projects, gardening, big celebrations of national events. None of these are in any way the same if done at home.

I go to a toddler group with DD and she just doesn't socialise. She tootles around on her own or she sticks to me. I can't persuade the other children to play with her, they are with their parents. There are few her age with similar interests, so it's not too surprising. It's basically for me. Pretty much all toddler groups are for the parents.

At nursery she has a little fan who greets her effusively every time she comes in the door. This favourite sees her every week and has got to know her. I'm not going to spend two full days every week in the company of other parents/toddlers for her to get to know another child like this. The carers can persuade ALL the children to share and cooperate, teach them to be careful around other children and interact without another parent shielding their PFB.

I can't make an enormous multi-child height project or grow potatoes in our tiny yard, or keep chickens ditto (and not forgetting that I also work) or redecorate our entire house with lots of children's artwork as the seasons change. I can't have the selection of excellent fine motor toys or gross motor apparatus that the nursery have, 10 different bikes on hand to see which one DS is ready to progress to, nor can I provide an on-hand peer for him to share a two-seat bike with when he feels like it.

Childcare is NOT a last resort for parents who must work. If it is leaving children to be wet or upset it is bad childcare. Good childcare provides children with things they can't get at home. Horse you seem unwilling to believe that non-parent childcare can actually provide anything you can't, well that's very nice for you but we aren't all as perfect as you are.

[redjumper]

Thanks for that well thought out argument. I always feel guilty for leaving my children at nursery so it's great to have the good things described in such detail. I thought a CM was a better alternative than a 'big anonymous institution' of a nursery (as I once saw it). But the CM just didn't work out for the same reason as the OP so I reluctantly went for a nursery. But hey, maybe it's not so bad after all!

[OlennasWimple]

great post drspouse. I had got as far as articulating to myself that I hate messy play and have never made my own salt dough, but you put it so well!

[Horsepower9]

Well put drspouse you have really put a lot of effort into your reply. I know you won't like reafing this but I know childcare cannot provide anything that you can't at home and I am saying this from the experience of once being a childcare professional in a very good well stocked nursery. it's worth pointing out that children don't actively seek out others to play with till around the age of 3 they are still getting their cues from mum and dad where play and social interaction is concerned until around that time that's why I like toddler groups. I made some very good friends there over the years. They are a support to parents. I am sorry your experience of them was so poor. If cm/nursery is your only option then great choose well and reap the benefits you feel you are unable provide for your child at home. I am sorry I have made you feel so indignant that you have to be sarcastic and call me a perfect parent just because I said i feel I can provide a better more loving and stimulating environment at home than a cm/nursery. And just a point - my DD who I stayed at home to bring up is now 9 and has more friends than my other 3 DD's ever had. She is happy secure and confident. She is very nurturing towards other children (this was pointed out to me by her teacher) and she was never in the care of a cm or day nursery. I spent time taking her to art centres and museums. She had dance classes and began learning to ride all before school. That dosnt make me a perfect parent as you state, just a loving one who has put time and effort into the life I created with my Dh.

[OlennasWimple]

Ah, I'm obviously not a loving parent, nor one who CBA to put time and effort into raising my DC. In fact, I didn't even "create life with my DH" with one of them, so I must be extra lazy to need to work and access child care.

Oh well, I'm sure they will manage to drag themselves up somehow themselves even with my sub-standard efforts

[drspouse]

Yeah, I didn't create life for either of my children.
I repeat: nursery and our CM provides my children with things I never can, and to suggest otherwise is patronising at best. The other two year olds in my DDs room at nursery do seek her out whatever you may think.

[Atenco]

Excellent post, drspouse, I can so identify with that.

[HSMMaCM]

Really interesting to read parents comments. I know some of the children in my care have loving parents, who have no choice but to work, but fortunately most of them are happy to point out the positive input I have to their children's lives. There are also a couple who really struggle with parenthood and appreciate the extra support.

[Horsepower9]

Oh thanks for clearing that up! That explains why you took such offence to my post! In future I'll make allowances for your situations. Here these are for you both

[Frazzled2207]

She can choose who she takes but she has acted v unprofessionally. Most babies probably cry affair bit the first few days they're left.
I think you've had a lucky escape, I wouldn't want to leave my child with her again. Think she should have given you the £150 back but as per the contract I don't think she legally needs to.

Find a nursery instead- very unlikely to let you down in the way. I say that as a mum of two difficult children who both did well in nursery after initial grumbles.

[hookiewookie29]

I'm a Childminder and this is how I see it.
She was shocked at her own child's behaviour. Settling in new starters, especially babies who are not as easily distracted as older children, can be damn hard work-they cry, need carrying and generally require more attention than older children.One day a week is also not enough time for your baby to get used to the Childminder as the gap in between visits is too long. They forget very quickly, and then it starts all over again. Her child is obviously too young to understand this and possibly shouted at the baby out of frustration because of the amount of time his Mum is having to spend with your baby.
She was completely honest with you.She didn't have to tell you about this incident.She could've kept it quiet. And isn't it better that she tells you now than have your baby for a couple of months, and then tell you once you've gone back to work? She maybe realised that her child may struggle with her looking after a young baby and may have to rethink which age group she wants to care for- and the end of the day, she must put her own child first (as we all do).
As for getting any money back-small claims court?Really???? You used her services for three and a half days, so the most she has to give you back is half a day!
As for all the bollocks on here about slagging her of on Facebook-what nice people you are! I can imagine that some mumsnetters are self employed and I'm sure that they'd appreciate a good slagging off on social media, just because they made a wrong decision! Your child wasn't hurt, is not traumitised by what happened and certainly won't remember it. And as for reporting her-who to?? Ofsted won't be interested.
Forget about it and move on!

[ChocolateWombat]

Horse.....as this is a thread about childcare used by people who are working, whilst it may well have work d better for your children when you stayed at home with them, than for the ones in childcare, the thing that is annoying people is mainly the fact that they need to use childcare because they work. Can't you see, that if you need to work and find childcare (which incidentally might have all the benefits Drspouse mentions) then hearing from people who say that for them, staying at home was better......IS SIMPLY NOT HELPFUL. You might be only talking about your own experience, but on a thread about working parents looking for quality childcare, and for whom being at home isn't an option now, or isn't the choice they have made, meaning they need childcare now...your assertions about you staying at home being better (even if only stated about your own situation) is clearly not going to help. What do you expect the parents on the thread to take from your comments....and if there's nothing for them to take, why are you making them? Do you think people will reassess their situation in light of yours and decide that perhaps it would be better if they stayed at home like you and avoided the problems the OP has had with childcare? Do you think most working parents are in a position to do this? And when you assert that you as a loving parent can always provide more than a childcare setting, how do you think those who have to use childcare will feel? There is a lack of empathy in your posts, on a thread which is about working parents and childcare - can't you see that? Your posts might be h lpful and well received on a thread about SAHMs or being a SAHM vs being a working parent.....but that isn't what this thread is about.

It's your lack of empathy for the position that most people on this thread, that is unpleasant. Yes, you are a SAHM you say 'I am in the fortunate position where I don't have to work and I won't apolofgise for it'......well no one is asking you to apologise for it, but what we would like you to do is acknowledge that most people on this thread are working and using childcare, probably because they are not so fortunate as you and don't have the choices you do. So when you say being at home with your children is better for them, you imply that NOT being at home with children is less good for them. This is never going to go down well....and I really can't see why you can't understand that. You are very much a lone voice on this thread, becoming critical and a bit unpleasant when picked up on it.....again, an empathetic person would hear the wider voice, understand what it is getting at and use the fact that itself is a lone voice, to just have a think about what exactly everyone else is a saying and why.....rather than digging its heels in and becoming defensive which is what you are doing.

Perhaps being a SAHP has been great for you. Good for you that you had the choice. Good for you that you are able to have what you see as the best option. Can you appreciate though that actually for many people they really do feel that their whole family functions best by them being at work and the kids do gain something from childcare? Or can you appreciate that some people might feel their kids would be better off with them at home....but they simply can't afford it? Can you see that the way you expressed your first post and some of the later ones, whilst being about your own situation, due to being presented on a thread about childcare were automatically seen as critical by people who use childcare - perhaps they are over sensitive....but can't you appreciate why that is, when they are often having to use childcare?

[ChocolateWombat]

Horse 'a loving parent who has put time and effort into the children I created with my DH'.....this is so clearly suggesting that those who work are not so loving and don't put so much effort into their children. How could you think it could be interpreted in any other way and that his wouldn't be offensive to the working parents who are populating this thread? I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have enough empathy to recognise how people would interpret this...or that you could say this without intending it be critical and goady.

We have all known about SAHP who haven't given their child a great start....who put their kids in front of the TV all day, who never go out and allow their children to interact with others. Remember not all SAHP are nice middle class parents taking their children riding and to dance classes before they start school. In itself, being a SAHP and not using childcare doesn't give children better starts - why else would the gov be providing free childcare for 2 year olds, to families where at least one parent is usually at home? And of course lots of working parents take their children riding and to dance classes and to rugby and football and tumble tots and Jo Jungles and all of the other activities too....and do craft with them and read to them. There is no acknowledgement of the wide variety of experiences children have from SAHP and working parents in your posts at all.

I can only conclude that you joined the thread to be goady and to deliberately say things to annoy the demographic of working parents who are on this thread. TBH, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to reply!

[Horsepower9]

choc I agree with you completely .... I'm not sure why you are bothering to reply either? Although I have noticed that you do like the sound of your own voice judging by the lengthy posts you like to add. You seem to be an authority on everything and I think you overanalyse posts. My post wasn't directed at working parents or trying to make them feel less of a parent because they work. but I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve with you and the other two posters. I was in support of op and I only wrote what I did because I had empathy for a child in the circumstances described. It somehow grew into a debate about what child rearing method was best which was not my intention but I then went on the defensive after being goaded into it by two other posters. I shouldn't have let that happen, and will be sure it didn't happen again. If I have offended any working parents reading my post it has been totally unintentional as I was a working parent myself first time round. At the end of the day my original post been turned into something it was never ment to be.

[ChocolateWombat]

Yes, well I shouldn't have got involved in the ridiculous 'debate' either, and also felt goaded.
Yes, long posts from me often....I like to explain my thinking, rather than just stating it, for clarity. I always try to empathise and understand how different people will feel about a situation and also what I am writing myself too, realising that written form can easily cause offence, especially over sensitive issues.
Anyway, I'm done on this thread I think. OP hope you find some childcare which really want works for you and are able to move on from your bad experience. Apologies to you for joining the comments which went off topic.

[Introvertedbuthappy]

DS2 had a great time at his 2 hour settle in session yesterday afternoon. There were apparently no tears, although he did get a bit grumpy at one point but was distracted by moving to the construction area. When I got there to pick him up he was happily wolfing down some chunky vegetable soup and homemade bread. So, overall I think things have turned out for the best. I stayed for the first half hour and really liked how staff interacted with the babies. One was even holding a baby asleep as she was a bit under the weather due to a cold.

I am happy with my choice. I love my job and am happy that (at least in these early stages) DS2 appears to like his nursery (and especially one of the nursery workers who had him giggling as I left).

[Horsepower9]

I am delighted for you op and your Ds. Glad that it is all working out for you.

[Realjournal123]

If I were you I'd check this one out as it seems like a scam. Pass by the house and see if you see other mums dropping off their children? Sounds a bit 'stalkerish' but since it's such an unusual situation is do it. Try to speak to some mums who also attend. Very strange but I'd be happy that I didn't put my child with this childminder!

[HSMMaCM]

Then nursery sounds fabulous OP. She unwittingly did you a favour there.

[CurtainsforRonnie]

Nursery sounds great OP for DS

Do you think the CM does this all the time, she sounds awful

[Matchingbluesocks]

Horse with all due respect you say you worked in child care so you obviously weren't a high earner: it's not particularly lucky to be in a position where you don't need to go out and work for £10 an hour.

Lots of parents, particularly those paying for the nurseries (which often cost more than the the nursery nurses working there are taking home) would be giving up significant incomes to stay at home. Our lives would be totally and utterly different if I stopped working (or more likely, if my husband did) and it's not a life we want for our family right now.

Op I can't add to the excellent advice you've had here; good luck

[Horsepower9]

Match - how presumptuous you are of my situation. I have pm you to help clarify. But I am incensed by your post. The people's wages you are sneering at are the very people who are looking after your DC's.
It's a good job someone is willing to work for 10 quid an hour so you can leave your kids there and carry on to you and your Dh high earning jobs. I would like to see nursery nurses earning a lot more than they do now because it's far harder looking after children and providing a stimulating environment than any other job. Next time you look down your nose at a low paid job, think how it would effect you and impact your life if they stopped doing it!!
If any other naysayers want to go off topic regarding parts of my post that have been taken out of context please pm me as it is not fair on the original poster.

[Horsepower9]

And of course nursery fees are higher than the staffs wages. How would you imagine a company works and where do you think the money comes from to pay the staff?
There are also a lot of overheads the biggest of which is insurance. The list is endless.
Your boss will be taking home more than you where you work to or didn't you think of that?