To think that if you become a childminder you should not just take 'easy' children

[Introvertedbuthappy]

I go back to work in December and decided on a childminder to look after my baby for the three days a week I'll be working. As I started looking in September I was asked to pay £150 a month until then to hold the place (1 day a week's fees) and as part of that could obviously use that day as childcare (as it was already being paid for). All fine.
Since then he has been there 3.5 days (CM wanted to cut one day short to go on holiday at a day's notice). On Tuesday she called to say that she will no longer look after my 6.5 month old as he is 'a difficult baby', 'cries a lot' and 'needs a lot of attention'. She also described an incident where her 3 year old got so frustrated with my son's crying her child 'screamed in his face, which was distressing not only for yoyr son, but myself and my daughter'. She has 'never seen a baby like it' (not in a positive way).
I am both devastated and angry. He is generally a happy chap, does like a lot of stimulation, but is happy to roll around/jump in his jumparoo/chase a pack of wipes round, but does obviously need to be picked up sometimes (ie like a typical baby). He doesn't sleep much but is generally not grumpy with it.
I'm upset about a number of things - the screaming incident, the language used about my son to turn down the contract and the fact I've pissed £150 down the drain to hold a place I can't take up.
So, AIBU or should she have attempted to settle him better before branding him a 'difficult' baby?

Talk about jumping to conclusions. 3 year olds are more than capable of creating their own behaviours without it needing to be modelled. I'm damn sure none of us ever modelled lying on the floor in the middle of Debenhams screaming and throwing things but the wee bugger still did it anyway!

Not saying this particular CM is amazing, but children can play up for one care giver whilst being great for another even when the environment and the care are perfectly appropriate. The comments from various posters suggesting any time a child doesn't settle it must be the CMs fault are really pretty blinkered as there is far more too it than that.

Yes, I take your point, but lying on the floor having a tantrum isn't the same as behaving aggressively towards other children, is it?

I'm a childminder and this has happened to me several times, although the shortest settling in period was 8 wks, the longest 7 months. There are good and bad childminders, like any other profession, but you should have been refunded your deposit if you haven't actually used it for childcare x

Honestly...I'd hunt that bitch down and scream in her face!!!! How absolutely dreadful and how traumatic for you and your baby. Thank your lucky stars you found out now and pity her poor children. After you have given her a piece of your mind, I would let it go. Although I would make it clear you would be badmouthing her services to everyone. Your baby isn't bad, she can't cope!!!! That's the reality! Give your baby a snuggly kiss and forget about it. Xxx

I understand that CMs prefer an easier child. Wouldn't we all choose easier children given the choice? And they do have a choice in who they look after in a way we don't about our own children. In understand that it doesn't work out every time between children and CMs. One of the key aspects of a good CM is ability to communicate with parents - it is after all, the parents not the child that chooses them and pays them. A bit of tact when talking about a parents precious child is needed and especially if ending a contract. A bit of diplomacy and kindness never cost anybody anything, but are highly valued....and this CM lacked these qualities. These are not issues for a formal complaint and of course some people have better communication skills than others....but still! OP did you get any sense of this poor communication before starting? How many times did you meet the CM?
Most people would reasonably expect more than 3 days given for a baby to settle in, before a CM decided it wouldn't work. This CM does seem to have given up too easily.....the end result may have been the same after a month, or not....but to not give it a bit longer seems flaky and unprofessional to me.
Wouldn't it be great if there was something like TripAdvisor for childcare?

She should refund you some of the placement money for the days you didn't use. Just be glad she was honest with you.
It was a bad match and sadly no one will love/look after you child like you would. I'd re think the going back to work thing until he is a bit older and more able to cope.

I met her twice before he started his 2 hour settle session. I felt she was reassuring and communicated well, but was clearly wrong. I am still confused that if my son was truly such a nightmare why she didn't say when I picked him up? Why call me randomly on Tuesday afternoon?

My DS really isn't difficult. I have had a challenging baby and this is TOTALLY different. He is happy to go to other people; DH regularly takes both boys into the nearest city for the day etc and DS2 doesn't bat an eyelid. Likewise when friends have been round/I've gone to theirs and I've nipped out - he's not clingy. In fact he's the opposite - wants to be doing it all himself.

Sadly I can't rethink my return to work date, it is submitted in writing and we quite frankly need a second wage back.

Horse - there's nothing in the OP's posts that suggests her DS isn't able to cope with her going to work

And I'd disagree that no one else can look after your DC like you can: we have had a number of great nurseries / CMs with both DC, who obviously didn't love them as if they were their own children but certainly looked after them as well - if not better - than we could.

The exact same thing happened to me!!
My daughter had a week's worth of settling in sessions with a childminder. She was a new childminder and we were her first family. Then after her first proper day she sacked us claiming my daughter cried too much. She has since settled absolutely fine at nursery. There's nothing wrong with her!

I was gobsmacked. And devastated for my baby to be honest. It is an ordeal for a baby to be left with a new carer, there were a lot of tears but I thought that just had to happen while she got used to the childminder. Then it turned out the whole ordeal was for nothing and she had to do it again at nursery.
You should obviously get your money back, I didn't pay mine, but that's not the main issue here. It's about the trust you put in the childminder to actually care for your baby which she failed hopelessly to do.

I've looked at the money issue again.

So, in my understanding CM asked for £150 for each month from when OP saw her, in order to keep the place open and available for when she needed to start properly in Dec.
However what complicated the situation is that the CM was willing to offset that £150 against 1 day of childminding per week in the run up to the full service beginning.......effectively then, that £150 became the FEES for 4 days childminding rather than purely a retainer. essentially then, the CM was offering a service, just a reduced hours service. IF the OP didn't send her son in that period then the £150 was still payable and wouldn't be fees but a retainer.It is unusual to offer this...and confusing - that £150 could act as either a retainer OR as fees.

And OP did use the service.

I think it is unusual for a child to go to the childminder for a day a week before the contract actually starts - effectively, they have already started, just for a smaller no of hours. I guess the OP was sending her son partly so he could get used to it and partly to get some value from the £150. OP did you intend to continue sending him for 4 days per month before you went back to work?

Effectively what happened here is that the OP was using the CM (work had already commenced) and the CM decided she didn't want to look after the baby. Regardless of the unprofessional way she ended it, lack of notice etc which were wrong, she HAD provided 3.5 days childcare which she was entitled to pay for - so if she owed the OP money it was half a day.

So, imagine a different scenario - the CM agrees to keep a place fo
r Dec, if £150 is paid monthly and the OP doesn't send her son there in this period because she ist work.....then the CM says one month in, that she will no longer be able to take the child in a couple of months.....would she owe the parents then?....I think in this scenario, they actually would. In this scenario if there is a 3 month lead in time, effectively £450 is charged by the CM to hold the place, but if the place isn't held, then the money needs returning, as the CM hasn't then provided the place.

The problem in this particular case, is the use of the word retainer, for then what wasn't a retention period, but a period of childminding, and the transfer of what was retention money into fees. The OP knew she could use the service (and it would cost her no more than the retainer) and the CM was prepared to provide a limited service, considering the retainer effectively as fees. This wasn't good practice because of the confusion. A retainer and fees should be entirely separate. So actually, if the service had already started,mother fees should have been payable and no retainer needed, unless an EXTRA retainer to reserve the extra days beyond what was already provided was needed.

It became complicated when the CM decided not to look after the child NOW and also not in DECEMBER which was when the deal was supposed to start. The full contract never started, but a limited service in the short term had been received. I can see why the CM didn't want to return the money because she had done 3.5 days work....however, if she hadn't done this and pulled out, I think she would have owed the money. Within this scenario, what could have happened and been worse, was that the CM received 3 months of £150 for no service (just been retained) and then started looking after on the boy and ended it after 3 days! Then you would be more out of pocket and seriously landed in it.

So, I still think it was poor behaviour to bin the child after 3 days.....and this is what is upsetting the OP. However, she has received 3.5 days care for her £150 (which I know she wouldn't have used unless she thought it would be the full deal in Dec) and she hasn't been left without childcare AFTER going back to work, which would be much worse. SHe does have time to find an alternative....and the CM knew this, when ending the arrangement....she didn't dump her in it, as some CM have done to people short notice.

I think OP should forget about the money and move on from that CM, if she has serious concerns about the level of care, make a complaint to CC, but if not, accept she's annoyed about being let down and the insult to her child, but get over it.

Next time, get a clearer agreement which is all written down which doesn't combine retainer money with providing a limited service. Take up references.....and if the dependence on one person, which is what is involved with CMs isn't for you, use a nursery.

I think the money is a red herring in this thread. The disappointing thing is more the fact that a CM would decide to bin a child so quickly and not give them more chance to settle. Don't take babies if you don't like their behaviour and want an easier life - that's their choice, but don't take a baby if you don't want to deal with baby behaviour.

I have been a childminder since 1974, so obviously have a lot of experience of settling in babies. I had never had any difficulties until recently when I had an adorable baby come to me. He had been turned away from nurseries because he never stopped crying ,he was 12 months old. Well for five weeks I carried this little scrap with me everywhere even to the toilet. He would cling to me like a limpet. The only time I put him down was to change another baby, fortunately the others were happy to scoot around and play. He is now happy and contented and will go off an play even busy playgroups. There are amazing childminders out there and dreadful ones. I would want to see references before leaving a baby with anyone.

Hi, I am an Ofsted registered childminder, if you want we can have a private conversation regarding care for your baby.

Suzie you do sound amazing. My CM for my DC3 was just like you. We had one hairy CM over the years but thankfully it was short lived. Most CM I've had have been fab.

olennas/ op said her child is easy and likes to do things himself and dosnt mind being left yet cm said he crying constantly to point where her daughter screamed at him! That says to me he wasn't happy there.
I am fortunate enough to be a stay at home mum now with my DD number 4 as am in a position to. Looking back I missed great chunks of my other girls lives whilst at work. I just think having had both experiences that the bring them up yourself till school option is better. I have also worked in the nursery setting and you just don't give the same love and attention to a child due to numbers that you would if you were with your own at home. I don't understand your comment about someone being able to look after your Dc better than you could I find that a weird thing to say?

Horse, the thing is, that lots of people NEED to work. Therefore, saying that it is better to stay at home with the kids until school and you found it better when you did that than when you worked, doesn't help all those who NEED to work.
The OP is about to return to work and needs the extra wage. She HAS to find childcare, as lots of people do. I think your comments make working parents feel bad.....and there is no need.
Some people have a choice. And many of them will choose to work....and it will be the best thing for their families for a variety of reasons. Others will choose as you now have....and it will be right for them.
Lots of people don't have a choice and it's really important to recognise that not everyone situation is the same as our own. If you need to work, finding the right childcare is a big deal for parents. The OP has had a bad experience, which has understandably thrown her. She wants to find something great for her DS, whether it's nursery or a CM. And great options are out there.

Sounds like a lucky escape! Especially if she has such a badly behaved and 'difficult' 3 yr old. It sounds like you'll be lucky to get your money back tho tbh. :-(

chocolate It was not my intention to make working parents feel bad and your sweeping statement that it does is not right. I have a good friend who planned to take a career break and only lasted a month before she went screaming back to the office for adult company and sane conversation. I was a working parent myself the first time round. I understand my opinion won't fit with everyone but having been on both sides of the fence I enjoy being the primary caregiver for my DD and can see the benefit it brings to her.

I had something similar with 14m old DS, but no retainer or other wasted fees, at least. I think CM begged to be out of the contract on day 3. I thought CM was a bit of a wimp, too, but I could understand her working envt. was being ruined. tbf, DS had never been away from his parents so was maybe bound to be a total PITA... but what were we supposed to do about him spending time with other people?

I'm a CM and that's appalling. One of my mindees came to me that way, actually. His previous CM told his mother the week before she was supposed to go back to work (the mother was off in the summers) that she couldn't have the little.boy because he cried all the time. She was awful about it. He was one! It's just silly.

I've had him for two years now and some mornings he still cries at dropoff. It is what it is.

I can see if she truly thought he'd be better off elsewhere, but then she should have said that. Her behavior was unprofessional and unkind.

Horse lots of people are good at looking after children. Some parents aren't particularly good at looking after any children, their own or anyone else's!

My DCs get different things from their CM, from me/DH and from nursery (they've both been at both CM and nursery at different times).

I'm not a childcare professional and would hope that a professional is at least as good at looking after them as I am, or I wouldn't employ them. The role of parent and the role of childcare provider are different and you can't possibly make a blanket statement that every parent is better than every childcare provider.

Saying that nobody else can possibly be as good as you at looking after your children is pretty much saying that they should never spend time with their father, grandparents, other relatives or playing with a friend at their house - let alone learning to socialise at preschool. I'd say all of those are pretty essential for children!

Exactly drspouse

The only time I put him down was to change another baby, fortunately the others were happy to scoot around and play.

genuine question suzi do you not feel that having to give this 1 yr old so much attention negatively impacted on what you could do for the other mindees, particularly the other baby? How did you pick him up?

OP I know this is page 17 and buried... I'm sorry this happened. I can see why you're suspicious she just wanted the place for other children, which would really annoy me, given what she said.

Even if you give CM benefit of the doubt she dealt with it v badly. Glad you've got a nice nursery place. But so unsettling for you and your baby with something that's hard enough already.

She asked for the retainer to guarantee a place so she should at least offer some £ back IMO. I'd definitely get in touch to let her know how you feel and then after that maybe just forget about her. Definitely lucky escape but horrible way to go through it.

drspouseI was a child care professional for many years and first hand witnessed how some parents shouldn't be allowed to look after a dog let alone a child.
I know some people have to use cm and nurserys and as I already said in a previous post that I have used a day nursery myself. But I still think children are better off with mum (or dad ) as their primary carer.
There are plenty of toddler groups to visit for social interaction and a network of family members but I stand by my remark
that no one would love or look after your child like you would yourself. The love of a parent for their own child cannot be equalled . I have visited private nurserys that were over subscribed, where toddlers were wet because workers were too busy to toilet and saw one shut down for cruelty to children in their care. A lot (not all !! before the cm on mumsnet all jump on my post) of childminders do the job for extra money because they are at home anyway with their own children. Unless you are a pisspoor parent who sits your children infront of the tv 24/7 and gives them pot noodles for every meal, they are not providing anything you can't provide yourself.
If you have to work then you choose the option that is best for you. I am in the fortunate position where I don't have to work and I am not going to apologise for it either.

Horse do you know more than the rest of the posters on this thread? that not working is even an option for the OP or her DP? Otherwise it is pretty offensive that you make the blanket suggestion that not working is what she should do when she encountered one poor CM.

You really cannot presume what is the best option for another family unless you have a lot more information than that given by the OP. Even with more information it comes off as very presumptuous, sanctimonious and bizarre after not doing it yourself for your first 3 children for your own reasons, surely that should give you some insight into why other women might work.