To be dreading the US election.

[savedbythebell]

I've never before been too bothered at the outcome of an American election, but this one just fills me with dread. I don't want Trump to get in, I don't want Clinton to get in.

It's just awful, both seem truly awful options, and I'm a bit appalled that a country the size of America couldn't have come up with better than these two.

Trump is awful, he just seems crazy, but Clinton wants to take on Russia and send the world to war. The awful thing is, there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. Is there any light at the end of this tunnel?

It's weird isnt it, we're all looking on with eyes and mouths wide open in fascinated horror.

I think Dh and I will stay up watching it, if we can work out the timing of the results.

I recall feeling the same about George W

There are checks and balances to limit the amount of power the President actually wields - look at how Obama has been blocked from doing a lot of things he wanted to do. I don't think either candidate could do too much damage - but the shock and horror of someone like Trump winning and what that would say about attitudes and feelings prevalent in America is awful. Much like Brexit, it reveals a very dark underbelly which is much more powerful than previously suspected. I think Trump would be disastrous for all sorts of reasons but I am hopeful that the political system in the US would mute him and render him as ineffectual as possible. I think it's massively unfair to compare Clinton to him - his wrongdoings are vastly more serious and widespread than anything she has done.

I just think what a horrible set of options for the US. It is terrifying.

I am very ignorant though- are there independent candidates standing?

Its awful isnt it. No option of a third person. Whens the election as seems to have taken months now!!

Trump has now overtaken Hillary in the poll. It's terrifying.

I am constantly amazed that people think Clinton and Trump are equivalently bad.

I'm very worried about one of them - the sexual assaulting, tax avoiding, inexperienced, privileged, tantrumming three year old - getting in, the other not so much.

I know Trumps wrongdoings can't compare to Clintons, I'm not comparing them in that way. It's that they both equally scare me but in different ways.

I'm still hoping that they are going to announce that it was all an elaborate hoax and put up 2 different candidates.How can a country even contemplate voting in a President who talks about grabbing women's pussies?

All those things yes birdy but with Clinton it's her warmongering stance that scares me.

In which way is Clinton warmongering?

She's said that she'd willingly take on Putin, also Iran.

I'd be far more scared of Trump warmongering than Clinton.

Well, I don't think the President can unilaterally decide to take the country to war - as I said, the President is very much hemmed in by the system so I wouldn't worry that Clinton will start a war on her own.

Yeah, me too. Clinton is a savvy, highly experienced professional politician. She's a safe pair of hands.

Trump, otoh, has never held elected office and seems to think you can negotiate with foreign powers by pretending he's on the Apprentice. As for his manners. I don't know how his supporters think people behave at international functions, state banquets, etc. But I can only cringe at the thought of him, for example, groping Kate's arse at Buckingham Palace. He's hopelessly vulgar. And uneducated, and unsuitable.

More worryingly, there was a report that during a briefing on American foreign policy that Trump repeatedly asked "why can't we nuke them?"

As for war with Russia, times have changed. Russia has a lower GDP than the UK now. Its economy is a mess. It's got nukes but it hasn't got much else. That's why Putin's always posturing. Trying to convince his people that they're still a superpower.

Clinton was Sec of State. She knows too much about the delicate balance of international relations to be a warmonger. She may say on the campaign trail that she's not afraid of pissing off Russia and Iran but that's what all candidates say (except Trump). It doesn't mean WAR.

Obama never even managed to close Guantanamo cos the Dept of Defence wanted it kept open for rendition and blocked him at every turn. And that was one of his main election pledges.

Trump is going to get an awful shock if he does become President. He's not used to not being allowed to do things.

I agree with Elspeth - she's showing she's tough, not suggesting she's a warmonger.

And just because the President wants something to happen, it doesn't mean it will happen. That's going to come as a huge shock to Trump if he gets in.

America would be the laughing stock of the world with Trump as president, how could world leaders ever take him serious. What a mess.

They survived Dubya who went down internationally like a floater in the shallow end.

They'll survive Trump.

Its like watching a slow car crash, I cannot watch, but cannot not watch........

I'm surprised they have two poor choices - I think Clinton is the much better choice but she never been a popular presidential candidate only one with worse numbers ever is Trump himself - at least that what I've read.

But then didn't the French have "vote for the crook and not the Nazi" for one of their presidential campaigns which also whittled down to two choices.

But the US system has lots of check and balances - so it depends how their house elections go as well as the presidential race.

I think it more disturbing for what it shows about the society as a whole - like the BRITEX vote here.

They survived Reagan also.

I think Trump is more dangerous though than Dubya or Regan because he will want to actually BE at the helm. (rather than listen to advisors I mean).

Clinton is definitely a criminal. As an ordinary citizen try and do half of what she has done and stay out of prison and/or keep your job. She is way way too crooked.

A rock and a hard place for the US citizens.