Am I really 'grossly irresponsible'?

[Saggingninja]

My 12 year old daughter's best friend - 'Polly' comes to stay for a few days over half-term. Polly is 14. On the first day, Polly says she would love to go into town (Manchester) with Katie. So I give them money, make sure their phones are charged and send them off.

Both girls are sitting in a cafe having hot chocolate. Polly texts her mum to say she's having fun. Three minutes later Polly's mother calls me. I am 'grossly irresponsible letting two young girls go into town and anything could happen.'

I pointed out that it's half-term, there are likely to be loads of parents and children around and both girls go to school by bus every day. But Polly's mother is convinced their are gangs of Mancunian paedophiles lurking everywhere, so I dash into town to rescue the girls from having a nice time.

I had very overprotective parents who convinced me there were 'bad people' everywhere and kept me in a bubble. I grew up anxious and timid and was determined that my own children would be more confident. And our sons are far more likely to be victims of criminal violence. Our girls are in far more (statistical) danger of being assaulted by someone they know well.

Perhaps I should have told Polly's mother before I let them go. But she (Polly) seemed so pleased and there were two of them. Was I wrong?

Yes check with Pollys' mum first but as you said Polly did call her mum anyway and that was responsible. I understand being over protective that was me at one time. Maybe mum needs a bit of support to let her give her daughter a bit of space. Both mums could go into town and arrange to meet the girls after a while. I know you may not see it as your responsibility and you'd be right. But if the girls are good friends it may be just the start of a friendship for all of you.

Francis ok you might not feel that, but clearly Polly's mother did.

If you had been the OP and something had happened in town then the chances are Polly's mum may well hold you responsible because her expectation may be that you are supervising or keeping her daughter safe.

I would suggest that you might in fact step in if you saw your child's friend do something dangerous in front of you.

motherofmonsters post gave me pause. I'm Katie's stepfather and Polly's uncle. Just to be clear, Katie lives in London most of the time and goes to school on the bus. Polly lives by the coast and also goes to the nearby large town to school on the bus. She says her school are happy to let her class roam the streets of their local city - a huge tourist attraction - unaccompanied. They went into Manchester on the train gleefully, at about 10.30 and I said I would come and get them in the car at about 3pm. As it is, I went in and stayed with them as soon as we got the phone call. They were happily having a streetfood lunch in the Arndale. I joined them and got food poisoning, they didn't. That was probably the most dangerous thing they were exposed to.

Saggingninja and I were thrown by Polly's Mum's call, and we're still uncertain of our moral position. I come from the school of thought that thinks children need to be taught to cope with the world, but not precipitately. I know Manchester well and figured midday on a midweek half term was busy enough to be safe, too many people about for predators to strike, and yet not so busy they would go unnoticed. So I was concerned by motherofmonsters post about sexual assaults in Manchester. I googled and I can find an attack on a boy toilets in the Arndale, but nothing on girls or the Piccadilly Gardens attack. I'd be grateful for the links.

I must say I would have been more concerned if they were boys. My now 27 year old was assaulted by other boys on a bus in Stockport when he was 12 and with mates, and was mugged for his phone in the Goldhawk Rd in London when he was 13. Young men are much more likely to be the victims of inner city street assaults than girls.

I was brought up in Hounslow, West London, and was going into the centre of London to go to museums on the tube on a Saturday with only a pack of ham sandwiches for company, when I was 12. My accountant, on the other hand, who has lived in Stockport all her life, whilst happy for her daughter 18, who worked for me at the time, to take the train to London for work purpose, would not allow her to take the tube from Euston to Clapham and back in the middle of the day on a Monday, because she thought she might be assaulted. Different worlds.

You should have checked with the friends mom first. She is right to be worried as there are all sorts of men about in the city centre looking at young girls. Believe me I've experienced it myself years ago. I have had strange men approach me and my friend when we were 15. I also had a filthy man in a shop window touching himself whilst exposed,he was hiding partly behind some clothes and me and my friend were sitting on a bench.He was staring right at us. We didn't know what to do,we were shocked.
You have to be careful now they are teenagers,as they will want to go into town regularly and end up staying there late eventually. The one God thing is that they have their mobiles with them. I never had a phone.

I don't think you were wrong - I've got four children (now adults) and I was mistakenly very overprotective with my oldest child who kicked against me constantly. We don't have a good relationship to this day. I gave my younger children more freedom and they responded well, they've always been more responsible and now I regret being so strict with my oldest child.
As for them being picked up by paedophiles, one of the major aspects of this is the long grooming process that goes on. A quick half term trip to Manchester is hardly likely to be the start of a long relationship with such a person.

Of course you were irresponsible and stupid too. How dare you let a child you have responsibility for go into town on her own without first asking her mother. it isn't for you or anyone else to say at what age you let your kids go out into town on their own. I think that is more a reflection of you as a mother of a 12 year old. Instead of whining on here and trying to get people to agree with you why don't you apologise to the mother. I mean, how old are you? You didn't think to check with the mother first? I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near you and i doubt the other mother will again.

It's not like you let them go at 10/11 pm.

Day time, phones charged - YANBU.

Although usually most places are safe enough, there have been attacks on teenagers in places like Manchester. See Google. All daytime attacks. Stuff does go on, maybe it's not common but who would want their child to be the one that's unlucky?

Put the cooking sherry away Toodles dear. You're making a spectacle of yourself.

I don't think your actions are irresponsible from a safety point of view. I agree with you about risk managed freedom. But I think when you have been put in responsibility of another persons child it would be good to keep their parents in the loop of anything that involves you not being with them. But I completely understand why you would have thought it would be a problem.

Jeez Louise...

I had my first paying job in a chip shop at 14. I lied about my age to get it and I helped run my mums shop

I think for me it would depend on how well I know the other child's mum, surely if your children are going to stay a while at each other's houses you'd know if they're the kind of parents who would or wouldn't want their child going out with adult supervision or if they would or wouldn't want a simple text to let them know.
I went out without adult supervision at 14.

I remain completely baffled. How do people live at such a high level of whipped up panic?

Crikey Belles there are attacks on people in country lanes! Country or city is no guarantee of safety or of violence.
I grew up in a very large city and crossed the city, two buses each way, to get to school. I thought nothing of going into the city to shop and had a Saturday job there as soon as legally allowed.
Brought my kids up to be confident in the city by helping them understand risk and what to do in an emergency. This doesn't guarantee safety - but keeping them tied to apron strings too long certainly doesn't either. It's kids who haven't managed risk at an early age that fall apart when they have to leave home to go to Uni or work.

Tis tricky. If I were Polly's mum, I'd like to think I wouldn't mind but I would probably have liked a quick text or call to let me know.
I presume you used your common sense, if she is a sensible, responsible 14 year old girl, then I don't think it's a problem. "Grossly irresponsible" is a bit of an overstatement.

Normal for 14! I was allowed to take the bus into town with a friend for a sandwich and a potter around the shops and museums from 13 onwards. No mobiles in those days and it was a big northern city (similar to Manchester). Sensible young teenagers should be able to look after themselves in the middle of the day in a cafe. Her reaction was OTT!

Well yes, Tapandgo, but I tend to feel that 2 14 year olds who are used to their local town as they've been there many a time with parents etc are ok

But a 12 and a 14 year old, the 14 year old not familiar with the town in question as visiting, and the 12 year old surely too young to be familiar with visiting the town alone/with friends of same age, is different to the first scenario.

The independence is very important. But I'm not sure it can't be learned just as successfully at 14 onwards, following familiarity with the town in question, as 12-14 and unfamiliar? I don't think not letting a 12 year old go into town will make them fall apart when they leave home to go to Uni or work.

I was thinking about this thread as I dropped DS(14) and DD(12) at the train station so they could go into Edinburgh. I didn't even wait to make sure they got onto a train.

Having said that, DS is virtually unique in his circle of local friends for being allowed to go into town without a parent, so I'm not all that surprised to see the reaction from Polly's mum.

I think Belles I suggested that kids who had not had the opportunity to manage risk early on are more likely to fall apart when leaving home and forced to confront new situations.............

But each to their own

Sooo after reading that the Daily Fail picks up stories I did a quick Google and this story is now a feature in the Sun!

By the way I think YANBU I can't see why this would be an issue and if it was, Polly should have told you her mum wouldn't approve.

Sorry I havent RTFT - relax OP she will calm down!

If DD hadn't been able to do such a mundane activity safely at 14 then I would think I'd failed her as a parent.

My 14 YO couldn't go into Manchester with a 12 YO. She'd need to be with someone older who knows the ropes really well. Even then, she'd rather not go - she'd be worried about stuff. I don't think I'm a shit parent, but maybe I am. I dunno.

I think you should have asked 'polly's' mum if it was ok first.