Am I really 'grossly irresponsible'?

[Saggingninja]

My 12 year old daughter's best friend - 'Polly' comes to stay for a few days over half-term. Polly is 14. On the first day, Polly says she would love to go into town (Manchester) with Katie. So I give them money, make sure their phones are charged and send them off.

Both girls are sitting in a cafe having hot chocolate. Polly texts her mum to say she's having fun. Three minutes later Polly's mother calls me. I am 'grossly irresponsible letting two young girls go into town and anything could happen.'

I pointed out that it's half-term, there are likely to be loads of parents and children around and both girls go to school by bus every day. But Polly's mother is convinced their are gangs of Mancunian paedophiles lurking everywhere, so I dash into town to rescue the girls from having a nice time.

I had very overprotective parents who convinced me there were 'bad people' everywhere and kept me in a bubble. I grew up anxious and timid and was determined that my own children would be more confident. And our sons are far more likely to be victims of criminal violence. Our girls are in far more (statistical) danger of being assaulted by someone they know well.

Perhaps I should have told Polly's mother before I let them go. But she (Polly) seemed so pleased and there were two of them. Was I wrong?

That is so true, Maths

Can't believe this is still going! OP disappeared long ago.

I'm a bit shocked at how some posters still keep harping on about how 'they were allowed to got to X or Y when they were 6 years old' ( or whatever.)

The towns mentioned are not Manchester or any other big UK city - they are medium sized suburban towns or cities.

But that's totally not the point of the thread.

The threadis not about what you were allowed to do by a parent who made that choice, knowing how mature you were.

The thread is about a parent who felt her choice was taken away from her.

As another poster said, if she didn't allow her 14 yr old into Manchester alone, it wouldn't be on her radar to expect her to go with a child 2 years younger!

Everyone involved shares some of the blame: the sly, manipulative Polly ( perhaps), the OP and Polly's mum. There was just poor communication about the whole visit, what would be happening and what was or wasn't acceptable.

'Everyone involved shares some of the blame: the sly, manipulative Polly ( perhaps), the OP and Polly's mum. There was just poor communication about the whole visit, what would be happening and what was or wasn't acceptable'

In your opinion polly. Some people just don't agree, that's why they're giving their own experience. I don't think the OP is to blame as in the circles I mix in it going to town (whichever town that is) is a normal thing and if a child wasn't allowed for any reason it's up to the parent to mention.

By the time your children get to their teens, much of your choice is taken away from you- by the simple fact that you only have a very short time to prepare them for adult life, and that can't really wait. Even at 16 or 17, it is incredibly hard to stop an NT child from going out there and joining her peers in whatever potentially dangerous activity is going on; by 18 you certainly cannot do so. The only "choice" you have is whether they should hit the world of vodka-supplied parties and late nights on the town with a modicum of preparation or not.

To make myself clear, I am not suggesting you should let your 14yos drink in the park or wandering around the streets at night or engage in any illegal or dangerous activity. Of course not. But letting them get used to the idea of taking initiative and thinking quickly for themselves in a safer context is the kind of skill that will be enormously helpful a few years later when they are confronted with that less safe world.

A teen who has never learnt to troubleshoot is not a teen I would like to see alone in a strange city on Freshers Week in a few years' time.

I agree with what you're saying in general, Math, but I don't think it's necessarily overbearingly paranoid or protective that Polly's mother doesn't want her 14YO out in a major city with a 12YO.

It's important for teens to take small steps of independence before big ones, and then for their parents to judge whether they've coped well and can have more responsibility/freedom or not. For whatever reason, Polly hasn't done the smaller steps proceeding this big one (like going into Manchester with an older friend, or large group of sensible friends) and there are a myriad of reasons why this could be. Some of them are out of the mother's control and don't reflect on her parenting.

My 14 YO hasn't been into our nearest large city with her school friends because last year when they all started doing that, she didn't want to. DH had just died and she wanted to be around me and her siblings. She didn't want to go on school trips, either. My job as a parent was to get her seeing a good counsellor then to restart the baby steps of independence from the beginning, to rebuild her confidence. And it's worked and she now manages sleepovers and school trips, and has been into the nearest large city with an older friend who is 16. A group of her friends were going further afield this half term actually, and I was very pleased when she asked to go. But it's now all been cancelled (despite the protestations of parents) as a 14 YO locally was abducted and raped, and they're all feeling rather traumatised by it.
So a few steps forward and a few steps back... but we will get there. The perpetrators being caught will help- but no news on that yet unfortunately.

Now of course, I make sure other parents know what's going on for her before sleepovers. And this parent didn't. And Polly didn't pipe up that she didn't want to go into the city, or that her mum had said she shouldn't after she was silly the last time, or whatever. But I can imagine my daughter not being honest, too, if she felt her friend's fun would be affected by her speaking up.
There was no excuse for Polly's mum being so rude though.

corythatwas thanks for the examples. None of my kids would want to do those things. DD has been asked to go to town shopping with a friend but she hates shopping. She would rather be at the stables or swimming or on her computer or with her dog or rabbit. We travel a lot and go away at weekends to various places Krakow etc so she likes being at home. No time in the week after school. The boys prefer to be at home sorting their website, programming and selling on ebay. Different kids do different things I guess. She has mates here now they have been staying this week and I have dropped them off at cinema while I waited next door with a coffee and lunch so they do go to cinema. As for all the doom about how will they cope at Uni etc I did and so did my siblings I don't see why my kids would be any different. Thanks for all your comments.

deblet, I am possibly influenced by the fact that I work at a large university- so I see a lot of the ones who don't cope

not just the ones who do seriously stupid and dangerous things (we get those too), but the ones who are so overwhelmed by having to think for themselves about simple everyday things like getting a bus or sorting out a medical appointment that they can't concentrate on their studies

I see so much anxiety around things that should be routine at this age

Frankly, it wouldn't cross my mind to ask a parent whether a 14 year old could go into town.

At what age do you think it would be reasonable not to ask?

So agree with mathanxiety and cory

And others

It would not occur to me to check with the parent of a 14 year old. An 11 year old, maybe. But not a 14 year old

I'm trying to think of things I would check with the parents of a 14 year old......and I can't think of anything really except going to gigs and things that would have had to be planned in advance anyway.

corythatwas I understand. I guess it goes back to the different parenting I mentioned earlier on in the thread. Just because I don't like kids playing out or roaming the streets I don't mollycoddle them.

Can I ask who has said their children "roam the streets"? Have you actually read anyone else's posts?

Polly texts her mum to say she's having fun.

Silly girl, she should have known how her mother would react.

Next time remind her not to text.

I have relied on teenage girls when buying presents for my nieces - there needs to be groups of teenage girls to give honest advice and stop me buying 'gold' coloured earrings and telling me which make up is best.

Deblet no one has said their kids 'roam the streets', from what I have read on here most go for hot chocolate, go shopping, go to the pictures or a show. They go and do stuff. That stuff just happens to be in town.

Mine go into London for example. i can't remember why the started but it's pretty easy and on the tube so you just get on and get off. I haev bigger teenagers now so not quite the same as a 14 year old but even at 14 they would go. I would always ask the other parent.

I have a similar issue at the moment now my 2 have passed their driving test. Is the other boy's parents happy you drive him in the car? The school sensibly have a policy that you can only drive another boy home from school if his parents have told the school they consent to that.

Polly's mum might be mad or over protective or ridiculous but in her eyes the day out seemed dangerous and as you were looking after her child it would have been best to run it by her. It's unlikely that something bad would have happened, but many 12/14 year olds have poor judgement and in your position you were opening yourself up to a problem if something had happened and you had not been there acting "in loco parentis".

Sorry to say it, but these days people seem less happy to accept another parent's judgment and tend to be more litigious, and so therefore you are far better to be safe than sorry. Next time you'll know.

And by the way I think 12/14 is fine to go into town for a bit, but then Polly is not my child so it doesn't really matter.

The 14yo should / would have known what her Ma thought of it.
I'd say Polly is at fault.

DD is 15yo & the only one of her friends (M or F) allowed to go into the little bad (sleepy, low crime) city by herself. Since age 12/13!! SIGH. The others all know they aren't allowed, certainly.

If you're in Glasgow you might be a bit irresponsible...

Why?

So much because it's a long way from Manchester and much more than a trip into town.

It wouldn't even cross my mind to check, ds2 is 13 and goes into town (nottingham) with all his friends

But that sounds like a typical arrangement that they make amongst themselves - a known norm.

Possibly in Polly's case, the arrangement was "can I go round to OP's daughter's house for the afternoon?" and the inference was that she would be at home being looked after by OP's mum. It doesn't matter if you think it's reasonable or not, it's a case of ensuring that the level of responsibility and care you give another person's child is in line with their expectations. Arse covering.

So would most people ask? And when would they stop asking?

OP you did absolutely nothing wrong. It wouldn't occur to me in a month of Sundays that a 14 year old would be so babied. Polly's overprotective mother must surely know that most 14 year olds are allowed into town without adult supervision therefore it was up to her to let you know prior to the visit what her rules were. If she wants to call anyone 'grossly irresponsible' (the cheek of her!) she should say it to herself.

Poor Polly. Life must be a drag with a mother like that.

Ah. I've just read the city v town comments. Mass confusion has ensued!

I would check for my 12 YO's friends, even where - like in this case - the friend is a bit older. Because I notice that his older friends are a bit young for their ages (hence why they want to hang out with a 12 YO I guess). For my 14YO's friends I know which ones are sensible and which a bit wild. The sensible ones I would check with them, not their parent; asking specific questions to make sure this is something within their capabilities and allowed by their parents. Any confusion and I would then call the parent. Those who are a bit rebellious I would check straight with their parents.