To be a bit annoyed with teacher's insistence

[coffeeoverthekids]

My son is five and has gone into year one this year.

They have started writing letters to pen pals at another school that the part time teacher has an affiliation with. She is semi retired but does a few mornings/afternoons at each school.

DS hadn't finished his pen pal letter and she sent it home with him attached with the note 'Will be perfect for X to finish in bed, need for tomorrow as am taking the letters for the children'.

I read it and it really annoyed me. That day he had his usual reading book and some maths homework, already an hour of work. AIBU to think that that is more than enough and if a five year old doesn't 'finish his letter' (she had made him rub out his name because he finished mid sentence).

So condescending, it's actually ridiculous. I am not commenting as a parent but as a teacher, so it is irrelevant whether I have young children. And I have said only what I have now reiterated to you; I stand by those comments.

I'd rather take the advice of the actual teachers teaching my dc, which in our case is battling them at 5 will make them disengage with schooling.

DD, who will apparently be a fussy teenager with her homework, spent 30mins this morning doing a ks1 English workbook because she felt like it.

don't complain later when your child is one of the many, many students who rushes or ignores their independent study and fails to progress as a result. You would have brought this on yourself with what you modelled to them

I strongly disagree with this. I don't think that objecting to one piece of homework given to a 5yo constitutes modelling a bad attitude to work. The OP mentioned that her DS already had a reading book, and some Maths work to complete that night, and presumably she would have been supporting him in this.

IMO what defines children's attitude to independent study later in life is being enthusiastic about learning when they are young. At age 5 there is a very fine balance between providing enough stimulation and making children feel over-loaded and demoralised.

My DS is 5 (summer born) and has also gone into Y1 this year. He spends a lot of time feeling like he cannot manage the work at school - writing a complete sentence takes him a long time and he would find writing a whole letter challenging. OTOH he is a very bright and happy boy and I have no concerns other than that he is a reluctant writer. I am very aware of this and try to make writing a positive activity at every opportunity at home (e.g. writing birthday cards for friends etc). However, trying to get him to finish a letter after school would be met with resistance as he would be tired, grumpy, and struggle to complete this. I fail to see how this would be a helpful lesson.

As I said, I think the most important thing at age 5 is that children should feel that learning is enjoyable and is something that they can succeed in.
I don't think it's appropriate for a teacher to suggest a 5yo completes a task 'in bed' as the teacher had asked in the OP. If there isn't time in school for the letter to be completed, then not enough time was allocated for the task.

In many countries in the world children this age would not be in formal education at all and I think it's a shame to impose unreasonable demands so young.

Pupils of secondary school age who rush or ignore independent study are not necessarily the 5 year-olds whose parents objected to excessive homework. As I said, I think if children are taught at home to see the value of independent thinking, reading and writing etc in fun contexts they will see these activities as worth pursuing later on.

I know anecdotes have little value but I had no homework at all at primary school and just read books for pleasure, encouraged by my parents. This had no influence at all on my attitude to homework later on - when I first received homework at secondary school I was the right age to understand its value and always completed it. Similarly my brother did little or no independent study after the same upbringing.

I think teachers and parents should stop blaming each other for students' negative attitudes to academic work, in or out of school, and try to work together to demonstrate that learning can be valuable - this does not include overloading 5 year-olds with homework.

Wow, Running: long post. You seem to have misunderstood what I have said, but don't let my actual points stop you 😂

Just sitting here grinning. .

Whether or not you consider my post an adequate or apposite response to your 'actual points' doesn't affect the validity of my own 'actual points', Trifle.

Thanks, though.

I didn't say your post wasn't valid, Running. I said it seemed to demonstrate a misunderstanding of what I said, which it does.

Children should learn in school and relax and play when they get out of the school gates.

It's not rocket science. As clearly seen in most European school systems where children play until 7 and do better then British children later on.

As clearly seen in most European school systems where children play until 7 and do better then British children later on.

Yes, although it isn't really fair to compare Finnish children who only have a completely phonetic writing system to learn with British children who have more than five times as many graphemes to get to grips with, with far fewer one-to-one relationships. Of course it's going to take longer to read and write in English so of course you have to start sooner.

So trifle, what do you think we, as parents, should do when children are set an amount of homework that isn't possible to do without tears for a particular child on a particular week in a particular household? How do you even force a 5 yr old to write when they've had enough? Do you think that produces positive motivated students in later life?

Obviously it would be better if schools set less, or made it clear that homework is optional in early years. Which many do - are those teachers dooming their children to pick and choose homework in their teens too? How do you even know whether the children diligently handing in homework to you were or weren't made to do it at 5 or 6?

I spoke to dd about this thread this morning before school. She was horrified at the thought of failing to hand in homework and has no recollection of occasionally not handing in homework in the past. She said she'd get in trouble if she didn't hand it in. So, no worries for dd failing to produce homework at secondary school. At 8 and in yr4, it is age appropriate for teachers to comment that a child hasn't produced work. Not at 4/5/6. I think not forcing dd to read when she didn't want to and not forcing her to do probably a maximum of 5 pieces of homework since she started school 5 years ago has actually had a positive not a negative affect on her learning. We don't get frustrated and shouty over homework in our home.

The children display their homework on their desks and get a written comment from a few children on what they liked about the work. Great for ensuring they do their homework and great that they are given the opportunity to peer critique at such a young age. A big thumbs up for emotional intelligence in my book as well as having the added bonus that children will take great pride with their homework to get the peer comments.

The scholastic goals of primary and secondary teaching are very different.

If schools forced children to hand in homework at such a young age, it would cause all kinds of issues. When dd was in reception/yr1, we already had parents, who clearly made the crafting models all by themselves. I don't know if it was parental competition or because the child had refused to do the project. I ensured dd did hers as autonomously as possible as homework is and always was primarily her responsibility. The parents, who did the homework themselves did their child no favours as they were teaching them that it didn't matter if they didn't do their homework, their parents would do it instead. In a school where failing to hand in homework at such a young age, this type of parental intervention would be rife. And a lot more children would be turned off by schooling because of the added pressure. We are no longer in the 60's and 70's.

Fair question, catkind.

I expect parents to, by and large, show respect for and positivity about what has been requested by school, expecting their child to attempt it and to do their best, other than in exceptional situations. Obviously if it is causing real distress, that needs raising and dealing with. But family birthdays, playing out, ballet - these aren't acceptable excuses for your child not doing a reasonable amount of homework. If you have an issue with it, take it to the teacher; don't just tell your child 'a drawing will be fine

Secondly, I expect those parents who insist on their right to ignore what is requested by school, and those who teach a 'their choice' approach to homework, to own their choices. Accept that the attitude they show to their children's work will most likely be the attitude their child shows to their work. Stop blaming school and teachers. Stop asking for 'support' when failing to do the basics themselves.

Unreasonable?

Wow trifle, teachers like you are the reason we chose to home ed...

And this point:
I expect parents to, by and large, show respect for and positivity about what has been requested by school, expecting their child to attempt it and to do their best, other than in exceptional situations

People earn respect, they don't just get it because they are in a 'senior' role, not with me anyway. You sound like you just think you know better than a child's parents, which you don't.

Also, parents who moderate homework do not necessarily have a disregard for work, quite the opposite in my case. In fact, ive lost count of the number of times I played out, celebrated a family birthday or went to a hobby instead of doing homework when I was at school. The result- I own my own business, regularly working 70 hour weeks as well as caring for my child.

So I'm owning my choices all the way to the bank...

I'm glad for you, Ollie. But do you know what? I am a very good teacher. I get on with my students (the vast majority) and they get good results. My approach may not be to your taste but I make it work and the students appreciate it.

Wait till you have a 5 year-old and you decide!

Accept that the attitude they show to their children's work will most likely be the attitude their child shows to their work.

This was exactly the point that I was responding to above when you accused me of deliberately misunderstanding your 'actual points', Trifle. I think in the early years of primary school, homework should be kept free from pressure by parents, to avoid children becoming discouraged from learning / finding learning a stressful process too young. Therefore, if a parent chooses to limit their child's homework this may well be to prevent over-stress rather than a deliberate attempt to sabotage their own child's academic future and then blame teachers for failure in later years.

If a parent is modelling that learning is fun, and should be done when well-rested, not over-tired, and not in excess, surely this is positive at age 5?

If you have been on the receiving end of criticism from parents who feel you should have done more to help their children succeed academically, then I can fully understand your POV. However, that's not the point that the parents of young children are making on this thread. I would never blame my son's teacher for not helping him with his writing. However, I resent the implication that I should unquestioningly accept any demands made on my young child by a teacher who may have a slightly different agenda to me: I have his more general wellbeing in mind as well as purely meeting educational targets or notional deadlines.

Trifle, I am sure you are good at what you do, but do you not understand that being a secondary school teacher is actually a very different job from teaching 5-year-olds? With children of over 11 it really doesn't matter if your approach is to a parents taste or not because children this, by and large, can get on with, and take responsibility for, their own homework. They do not have to be managed doing homework, the way a 5-year-old would be.

It isn't uncommon for young children to refuse to go to school or scream the place down. My dd did it. Being that parent, you will do whatever it takes to make your child comfortable. Homework not being a priority.

I think I am done commenting here because I have made my point and we are going in circles. I absolutely concur that it is your right as a parent to make the ultimate decision about what a professional requests of your child. But be prepared to take responsibility for those decisions, whatever they might be.

I imagine that the 1 hour of homework was set over the whole week, not just the night the teacher asked the letter to be finished off. I have never heard of a 5 year old child having an hours homework a night. Your child would only need to read for 10 minutes everyday.

I have taught year 1 for years. My youngest daughter is in Year 1 and I never make her do her homework - except for reading.

DSs teacher spelt practice wrong "practise" - I pointed it out with a "lol" and she did it again. All homework bets are off. 😆

In our case we get homework:
Monday - due Weds
Weds - due Friday
Thurs/Fri - due Monday
Along with spellings and reading every night - spellings (building in sets of 5, but you need to know all the previous spellings too) because they test them randomly to stop the parents giving a cramming session the night before.

Can get tough to fit it all in. TBF when DD isn't too knackered to engage we manage to get the homework done quickly (within 10 mins - maybe 20 if writing sentences are involved) and if she doesn't manage spelling or reading we can normally get it in before school.

Mumsnet threads have shown me that this is a lot compared to other schools.

Trifleorbust, why are you keep repeating,

"But be prepared to take responsibility for those decisions, whatever they might be." ?

Of course we are prepared. We are parents. We are stuck with our children.
We care, that's why we come on MN, and ask/give advice.