To be a bit annoyed with teacher's insistence

[coffeeoverthekids]

My son is five and has gone into year one this year.

They have started writing letters to pen pals at another school that the part time teacher has an affiliation with. She is semi retired but does a few mornings/afternoons at each school.

DS hadn't finished his pen pal letter and she sent it home with him attached with the note 'Will be perfect for X to finish in bed, need for tomorrow as am taking the letters for the children'.

I read it and it really annoyed me. That day he had his usual reading book and some maths homework, already an hour of work. AIBU to think that that is more than enough and if a five year old doesn't 'finish his letter' (she had made him rub out his name because he finished mid sentence).

parents to let them do as much as they can in 10 minutes and then if they can't finish, the parents add a note to explain.

So now parents are expected to give a 'the dog ate it' explanation to a teacher as well are they?

Ridiculous.

I give out homework because 'I have to'. IMO, homework has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to a child's attainment, achievement and progress. it is simply a 'tick filler' and to show parents that 'we're on the ball' so to speak! In most cases, because children, especially at 5 years of age, are completely shattered after school and have so little time from parents arriving home (if they work, especially the traditional 9-5 shifts) to bedtime.

I'm a teacher and I gave homework quite willingly in my early years of my career and got cross when homework was never done.
Now I am a parent too and understand the difficulties of getting a small child to complete homework tasks. If it isn't done, it isn't done - my philosophy as a teacher and a parent. My child came home with a home-reader last week (pink level, and he is only YR) and we didn't read it until 6 days later because he was tired, I was tired and all he wanted to do in his seventh week of starting 'Big School' was collapse in front of the TV and play with his cars. I thought, stuff it. I want my child to love school not to be turned off because he HAS to do his homework.

Was meant to say that most homework is usually done by the parent with the child being dictated to!

I suppose it depends on whether you are happy for a child in a class to not get a letter because the parents had better things to do. Or for your child to be missed out next time.

Have all the OPs who let their children pick and choose which homework they do and don't do, checked the school's homework policy before they enrol their child? At what age does it become acceptable to expect your child to do the homework even if they're not engaged in their learning? Because that does happen at school sometimes. Yes, 5 is young for an hour's homework, and the bed comment was weird, but it seems clear that an hour in one night was not actually expected. I am also pretty shocked at the willingness to undermine a teacher's authority in the name of 'I know best how to educate my child'.

"Nonsense. Children who have some control over their homework grow into teenagers who don't have to be micromanaged into their University Years."

Evidence? Having taught at KS3, KS4, KS5 and degree level I can assure you that this is absolutely not my experience. To encourage a student to grow into someone who doesn't need to be micro-managed at university, they need to be a student who does what they need to, whether they are engaged or not, and then goes the extra mile. Students are not- or should not- be allowed to exercise this kind of control over independent study at university (no matter how much they pay in tuition fees). If you want a good university student, teach them to respect deadlines and the time and expertise of teaching staff from early on.

Tallulahlu

Because parents still have final authority and responsibility over their child and its up to them to protect them from burn out, especially in their younger years, caused by pointless homework and a grueling schedule.

Also, parents pay for schools out of their hard earned tax money so imo I think if they want to exercise some control over their Children's learning schedule by picking and choosing homework then they should be able to. No matter what it says in the school's guidlines.

I am also pretty shocked at the willingness to undermine a teacher's authority in the name of 'I know best how to educate my child'.

Parents have authority over their children, not teachers.

Op... Will your child be upset when he is the only one in the class who doesn't get a letter when the pack of replies arrive?

You were given enough time to help him do the work. You made a choice not to, which is up to you. I'm just wondering if you thought about the consequences for your child when you decided not to finish the letter so it could be sent. My five year old dd would be devastated to be the only one not to get a letter when everyone else did - but you can't get a reply to something that wasn't actually sent.

Ollie - most teachers don't set pointless homework, so by picking and choosing you are essentially saying that you know more about education than a fully trained and experienced teacher who has educated hundreds of children. Do you also tell doctors the diagnosis - after all you pay tax for that too, or do you trust their professional opinion?

Cool Re "Do you also tell doctors the diagnosis - after all you pay tax for that too, or do you trust their professional opinion?"

Do you really think a teacher giving out homework to a bunch of five years olds is really the same as a doctor giving a diagnosis to an individual who is ill?

I certainly don't.

I have a lot of teacher friends, working in both primary and secondary education.

I trust them, I just don't trust the curriculum they are hindered and controlled by every day. And that is set by people who haven't studied education or educated hundreds of children.

Also, I'm not saying I know more about education than a trained teacher, but I know alot more about my child than a trained teacher. So yes I would pick and chose her homework, based on what I think is best for her and her education.

Children are not all the same.

Italian

Yes I just ignored that bit, it was ridiculous.

Ollieplimsoles, how many of your teacher friends appreciate it when children pick and choose what work they do based on their parents' opinions? Teachers know that not all children are the same. That is why a good teacher will tailor a learning programme, and, again, not set pointless homework. There is a big difference between saying you don't want a child to do homework because you worry about burnout, and that you will pick and choose because you don't agree with the national curriculum and you know what is best for your daughter and her education (not that I'm in favour of academisation, but even the national curriculum isn't compulsory any more, so you could always send your child to an academy which does teach a curriculum set by someone you respect).
No tax contribution entitles you to a personally tailored education. Feel free to foster a sense of entitlement, and then wonder why your tax contribution isn't getting the results you've paid for.

Talluahlu "That is why a good teacher will tailor a learning programme, and, again, not set pointless homework."

It seems pretty clear that homework which children as young as five have to be forced to do is pretty much pointless (to me). There are a lot of articles on the internet which suggest homework for primary children is pointless, certainly apart from the very top years or primary. So I am afraid I do not trust teachers not to set pointless homework. It's not their fault, they are doing a hard job, they do a lot, they are busy and I understand it may be easy to set some work.

Sometimes homework is not always collected or seen or marked, maybe. What message does that send to the students?

Also, we must remember that while children are doing one thing they are not doing another. So homework must be seen as set against the other things kids could be doing in that time. I can't expect a teacher to know that one child would be bike riding, another trampolining or another reading a book for pleasure and that actually homework gets in the way of those things and in the way of rest or family time.

So I think a safer approach would be that if there are no measurable benefits from setting homework for a certain age group, then to set it is, at best, a waste of time, at worst, detrimental to young children.

PS as I said my son is Year 2 and he has one piece of homework a week, 30 minutes maybe, that is OK, he does it, it seems fine.

Anymore than that I think would be too much.

The idea that young children need to go on being taught after the school day has finished seems strange, other things like after school clubs are (and should be) optional IMHO.

Talluahlu, coola

My dd occasionally didn't do her homework when very little. Other parents told me they sometimes struggled to get their children engaged and occasionally didn't do the homework either. By yr3 as far as I'm aware, the children all seemed to want to do their homework. Responsibility only works if it is age appropriate and 4/5/6 year olds don't grasp the concept of why homework is set. Now dd is 8 and in yr4 she would be upset if she hadn't done the homework because she understands this is an expected part of schooling and can grasp the concept that it's to assist with her learning. It is only since yr3 that her homework is clearly consolidation of topic learning at school. Dd does her maths homework the evening she gets it. Not so with her topic homework. We still always do it even when she needs encouragement.

It's only since yr3 that teachers have emphasised a need to do homework because this is when it was really expected and in some cases needed to be done as it was sometimes used for class activities. Whenever I spoke to class teachers before this, they were very much of the opinion of not forcing homework as well as reading on a reluctant child and better to let them learn at their own pace. This year the children get a piece of topic homework and 2 weeks to do it in. Since the beginning of the year, the homework is laid out on their desks and the children get to read some of their classmates work and leave comments about what they like about it. Most children of 8/9 would be mortified if they had produced no work as it would be very obvious now.

I really don't get why you are getting upset with parents for not pushing 4/5/6 year olds to do homework when the children are struggling with it. Occasionally not doing something at this age isn't going to impact on their long term future. Much better to encourage age appropriate responsibility. Homework in yr1 at dds school was almost always a crafting activity and very much about covering the walls to look pretty, which is great of course. The school wanted parents to do homework with their children as a way of encouraging parents in general to engage with their child instead of plonking them in front of the tv. So homework in those days was preparing the parents as much as the children for homework in the years ahead. So not doing the homework because of an inability to engage a child was not seen as a failure or scorned by the school.

I hope this clarifies why some parents are happy for very young children to not always do their homework or reading.

The same parents who are saying they are the authority, that the teacher has no real professional skill and that they know best when it comes to education, will be the ones moaning that their child isn't making excellent progress by GCSE. By then, virtually all parents expect me to coax or discipline their children into getting their work in class done and doing an appropriate amount at home. They are very often mystified by why little Jack or little Emily has little respect for school authority figures. Well here's the answer, it seems. To all those parents on this thread who believe they know best, it's self-evidently the way you brought them up.

Other parents told me they sometimes struggled to get their children engaged and occasionally didn't do the homework either. By yr3 as far as I'm aware, the children all seemed to want to do their homework. Responsibility only works if it is age appropriate and 4/5/6 year olds don't grasp the concept of why homework is set.

This is what we get with dd. She doesn't pick and choose which homework to do, she only has the concept of having or not having homework. She will either engage or not engage. There's no pattern to what she won't engage in, but if she's already overtired or just belligerent she will just refuse or do what she feels like, which won't be the task (like colour the pictures in rather than count them). Since we've stopped battling her engagement at school has massively improved, which to me is far more important. At this stage I don't want her disengaging with school completely over some tasks that apparently should take 10 mins if your child isn't shattered when you're back home.

Trying to get my eldest to write a letter when she was five would have been a torturous experience for us both. Loads of children would struggle with that at the start of year 1. Penpals is a nice idea but I think for older children.

My dd is doing fantastically well as I said upthread because we waited until the golden time when she's ready to learn instead of pushing and pushing the information in when her brain wasn't developed enough. Teaching when children aren't ready is like pulling teeth and then as soon as they are, it flows. One child will be ready perhaps two years before another yet with parental and scholastic support and dedication they will get to the same level as their classmates. That point for me is by the start of secondary school. Amazing really how the brain works. I'm not concerned about entitlement and GCSEs because we are managing things in an age appropriate manner. She just had parents evening and was described as a delight to teach and whizzing through maths. Both dh and I have taught at secondary level btw.

Then you have nothing to worry about, Mummy. But as you are clearly in charge, I expect you will be prepared to take responsibility for outcomes.

Expecting a 5 year old to do an hour's homework, whether it's every day or occasionally, is ridiculous. At best you will have a child who disengages from learning, at worst you will have a child who becomes over-stressed to the point where their mental health is affected.

Parents need to listen to teachers, of course, but not to the extent that their children are struggling and unhappy.

It wasn't the expectation that the child would do an hour of homework in one night. Daily reading and some Maths homework had already been set, but there is no suggestion that the Maths homework was due the next day. That would indeed be unreasonable. But asking a child to read for 10-15 minutes daily and complete a worksheet at some point in the week is not the same as an hour of homework daily. The worksheet can be done in chunks. The daily reading can be capped at 10 minutes. I am perplexed by how what was set would take an hour anyway tbh.

Trifleorbust, why are you so against parents who are interested in their children's education? I thought parents' and teachers' are "teamwork".

I don't undermine teacher's authority, I don't pick and chose what my ds does. In fact, my ds always hand in homework on time. I teach him to respect teachers.

At ds's school, in KS1, teacher say if the HW took more than 20 minutes, or if the child is struggling, stop. From yr3, they are expected to do it and hand in on time. I am not worried about his outcome because of my parenting. He seems to be doing fine.

But if my ds was 5 and struggling to write a sentence as OP says, I would suggest him to draw instead, and my ds' teachers would have been happy about it. That doesn't make me a parent who disrespect teachers.

Trifle no concerns there as dd has the utmost respect for the teachers. We are very engaged with the school. What we are doing with dd is in addition to school work and we have occasionally asked for methodology tips and advice. For example DH is foreign, taught equivalent A level maths and his way of doing column subtraction is different from the UK and he wanted to teach his way, which I said would confuse dd. As I said she does her homework now and shall continue to do so. We are very much in charge of ensuring she has the best chances of succeeding and learning both in a traditional class setting, life skills (including emotional intelligence) and a range of hobbies and interest. Mostly she does various sports as she's a very active child. There is a world of difference between a 5 yr old who is struggling to adjust to homework/school life and a cocky and belligerent 15 yr old. This is the point I think parents are making. I think some of what they are saying is being misconstrued.