To be a bit annoyed with teacher's insistence

[coffeeoverthekids]

My son is five and has gone into year one this year.

They have started writing letters to pen pals at another school that the part time teacher has an affiliation with. She is semi retired but does a few mornings/afternoons at each school.

DS hadn't finished his pen pal letter and she sent it home with him attached with the note 'Will be perfect for X to finish in bed, need for tomorrow as am taking the letters for the children'.

I read it and it really annoyed me. That day he had his usual reading book and some maths homework, already an hour of work. AIBU to think that that is more than enough and if a five year old doesn't 'finish his letter' (she had made him rub out his name because he finished mid sentence).

Against parents who are interested in their child's education? Er, not even close to what I suggested in my comments!

But if your child was struggling to write a sentence I would suggest - call me crazy - helping him or her to write, not saying 'Don't worry, I'm sure a drawing will do just as well.' It won't. Your child needs to practise what he or she can't do yet, then he or she will be able to do it more easily.

But that is only my opinion. My point is this: if you want to call the shots, call them. But be prepared to own the results, whatever those might be.

I don't think I have misconstrued comments from people who have said they just ignore what the teacher asks, Mummy. You haven't said that, but you have said you make the ultimate decision. Fine, I respect that, as long as you are completely happy to be held accountable for the results. You can't have it both ways.

Trifleorbust, I think you are going against what you are saying.
So, if the child is struggling to write, it's parents job to help her/him write, not teachers? And you are saying we should respect teachers who can't teach a child to write?

Goodness me. That is very concoted reasoning, Irvine. The teacher sends home homework because the child needs to practise a skill. The teacher is doing their job by providing the opportunity to practise an independent iteration of what they did with support in class. My advice to any parent (and it shouldn't really need saying!) is, if you want your child to improve and they need help, then your support will be helpful. But my expectation as a teacher is only that you will facilitate homework by giving your child a quiet place and time in which to do it, and making it clear that they need to do their best. I will teach your child, including setting and assessing the work. Hardly me saying don't respect the teacher if your child struggles with a skill.

I don't know.... the child was obviously struggling since he couldn't finish the task in class. So just send the task which the child was struggling as a homework isn't a good idea in the first place, imo.
It is completely different, if the child was not doing work even if they are capable.Not in this situation though.

Are you talking only about this letter now? I am talking about all homework. Either way, I disagree with you. If the child needs more time, it is not inappropriate to suggest they spend that time at home. The opportunity to practise is given, along with the additional time needed for the child to complete the work. This is good teaching, not passing the buck.

I was only talking about this letter, and OP's 5 year old, from the start. You are the one who generalized my opinion , and questioned my parenting in the first place. I never said I pick and choose with my ds' HW in general.

But Irvine, I have clearly been referring to parentS (plural) throughout and homework generally. These comments were not only targeted at you. Parent how you like. Obviously when someone who is paid to teach your child advises you to do something, it is your choice whether to do it. All I am saying is don't moan at them later when you chose to not follow their advice.

Sorry, if you choose not to follow their advice.

Trifle. When my child was in reception, yr1 or yr2 I did have ultimate responsibility because the teachers told us as parents not to stress if our children didn't want to do the homework or reading both in group and individual meetings. I am not trying to have anything both ways or go against the teachers or be solely in charge. Even in yr3 when I spoke to dds teacher about dd going off reading for a while, she wasn't in the least concerned. She's a very experienced teacher with many years behind her. As a secondary school teacher (I assume that's what you are) I appreciate not doing the set homework is an alien concept to you. When your baby starts school in 5 years time, you will get to see the many differences between primary and secondary education and just what a struggle is is for some children simply to attend school on a daily basis let alone anything else.

As I say, Mummy, it sounds like you are happy with your choices. I have no issue with you following the teacher's advice, or with you choosing not to, as long as you own those choices.

I would finish it for him, then in the morning get him to write "from X", and you write "and his mum" underneath it. Job done. And if it doesn't suit the teacher that's just tough.

I'm a teacher and have a 5yo in y1. Getting him to write to a pen pal would be a pointless exercise as he would find it incredibly difficult, and the receiving child would find it utterly unintelligible as they wouldn't cope with his phonic interpretation of spelling combined with his extensive reversal of letters and combinations. I would be unimpressed with this homework as it is not suitable for purpose or the level that my child is at.

I'm not a fan of homework as I believe that it entrenches the effects of advantage and disadvantage. Children who don't have the resources of time, support, space and equipment will struggle to keep up even more.

DS does have homework. The regular reading and use of key words is beneficial. There is also a weekly task connected to the topic which so far has been appropriate to what he can feel accomplished at and has appropriate outcomes for differentiation.

In general terms, school and home need to be supportive of eachother. 5 is very young- DS is still having tantrums out of sheer tiredness at the end of a school day and needs chance to play, unwind and burn off physical energy. My educational priorities at this stage is to develop a love of learning, and develop the foundations of reading and writing. What I won't do is force battles onto a young child who is not ready and risk turning them off learning by making it a frustrating chore.

But this wasn't 'homework' as such. This was something unfinished in class and a suggestion to finish it at home so they could be delivered the following day.

Thank you for a very sensible post MrsMook. This is exactly what I and other parents have been saying.

Trifle. I hope you are also willing to own your choices when your child comes along because if you act towards them as you are stating now, you risk turning them off learning for good. My mother did this to me. She's a typical right fighting school ma'am type. Despite my less than adequate school education including a particularly awful secondary school and parents who didn't seem to care, I still managed to get myself to university. Mother was too busy crowing about her superior schooling and her achievements to give a shit about me and how I felt and father thought the school was good enough for me. So yes, I'm very engaged in my child's education in the right way and alongside the teachers.

Mummy, once again (because you have form for this) I am not asking you for your parenting advice. I am stating my professional opinion, which I am perfectly well-placed to do as a senior teacher in a successful department, leading a core subject. Let's let it go before one or more of us gets annoyed, eh?

Also just occurred to me - we spend years now inculcating older primary and secondary kids with info about how to keep themselves safe online - not to contact strangers online or accept contact from them, etc etc. Isn't the whole concept of pen pal (even if it is another 5 year old) running contrary to that?

Does seem a bit old fashioned and weird.

If the teacher had sent off the letter (minus your son's as it wasn't finished) it's not only that another child at another school wouldn't have got one, it's that when the big bag of letters back came, there would be no letter for him.

I would have

1. prioritised the letter
2. made an appointment to talk about his struggle with homework. That's the real issue here.

I think the educational value of prn pals is dubious at this age. This seems a better project for much older kids. But to avoid the guilt aspect to do it in groups to Ben/Lily/penny from Jenny/Benny/Kenny etc. Plus maybe better if the class were not down the road but farther away.

Can 5 year olds rely read each others writing? Always?

That's fine trifle. I'm not looking to fight either. As I said both dh and I have taught at secondary level although our experiences were brief. I really don't need a secondary teacher professional advice for a primary school child. I do feel the you'rve been talking down to me. Perhaps you don't mean to come across as such. So I agree with you, best to leave it there

Trifle - the whole way through this conversation you have been imposing secondary school teaching views on a debate about a five year old.

Giving a very young child support and encouragement, and not insisting on homework when that child is over-tired will not cause that child to become an educational failure.

It's dangerous to peddle these views because some parents may feel that they have to force their children to do too much, and then the children may start to become resentful and be put off school.

To go back to one of your earlier points, I don't care if the homework could have been done over several days - maybe real life got in the way on the other days. It happens. Don't pressurise very young children over homework - it's totally counterproductive.

No, Naice: I have been giving my view about the consequences of teaching a child in primary that what their teacher asked them to do doesn't matter. Once the child gets to secondary that attitude - that you taught them - is unlikely to magically turn into a good work ethic. I am also not imposing anything on anyone. I simply said you can't have it both ways.

I work in a primary school, trifle.

Allowing a very young child not to do one piece of homework is not telling them that what their teacher has asked them to do doesn't matter. Most primary school teachers will tell parents not to force a child of that age to do something if they are too tired. I know with my son it would have had a very negative effect if I had tried to make him do homework when he was really tired.

You sound incredibly inflexible and set in your ways. Am I right in thinking that you don't have young children yourself? (Apologies if you have already said and I have missed it).

If you had actually read my posts properly, Naice, you would know I am not talking about allowing a child not to complete one piece of homework. You would know that I do believe there is a sensible level of homework (age appropriate) and you would know that I am addressing what I am saying to those who have said it is okay to 'ignore' all or most homework requests until they think it is better not to. My argument is simple: do that, but don't complain later when your child is one of the many, many students who rushes or ignores their independent study and fails to progress as a result. You would have brought this on yourself with what you modelled to them.

And no, I don't have young children. I am a teacher.

You are wrong, trifle. I have read your posts and I have responded to the points that you've made. You have ignored my responses and kept banging on with your (one) idea that the very real and reasonable concerns that parents have raised will cause their children to fail educationally.

Your comments about parents taking responsibility for their children actually sound like a threat: do it my way or your children will fail. This is nonsense. Parents and teachers should be working together and dealing with children as individuals.

I didn't think you had young children.