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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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Helpisathand13 · 26/10/2016 18:06

I appreciate your honesty. This topic is a highly stressful one for so many people. Thank you

seasidesally · 26/10/2016 19:41

my experience was good with ESa and PIP

both first claims for both for Bipolar

no medicals needed both paper decisions

esa awarded for a year in the support group,that was in april 2014 and not had to do renewal since even though it was supposed to be for a year

PIP awarded april 2014 enhanced rate for 5yrs

i must of been very very lucky but from my experience not all claims are doomed

ConvincingLiar · 26/10/2016 20:05

MatildaTheCat
Be aware they can reassess at any point in the last year of the award. In my case I had a 3 year award and got the letter just two years and one week later.

Actually I think it's policy that they start the reassessment process a year before the end. Should lead to seamless awards where appropriate. The warning is that they can reassess you whenever they like. There's plenty of people on indefinite awards of DLA who haven't got the message that their "lifetime award" isn't necessarily so. Some people are better off on PIP, others worse. If I was on DLA, I wouldn't wait for pip, I'd go and see CAB or similar to ask for their advice about where I'd likely stand.

It's worth knowing that the assessment provider (if agreed in advance) can audio record the assessment. This gives you reliable evidence to contradict any inaccuracies of what was discussed.

Anyway, I second what the OP says about getting your claim right from the outset rather than having to challenge a bad decision later. A letter from your GP saying "Mrs X has depression and takes 20mg citalopram daily" is ok, but not terribly helpful. If there are health professionals who are supportive, print out a copy of the criteria so that they can write useful things about their knowledge of the functional effects of your disability.

.

MatildaTheCat · 26/10/2016 20:45

Convincingliar , assessing you so early is just another way for the DWP to save money. They gave me a 3 year award and have reduced it after 27 months. This is apparently in my best interests Confused.

I've had another 5 months of misery. My dh thinks I should stop engaging with them and save the torment but it so very wrong.

fiverabbits · 26/10/2016 21:21

My son who is on Dla and has been for the last 23.5 years had an assessment on the 30th of June 2016 but he has not received any paperwork since then, is this normal ?

hookiewookie29 · 26/10/2016 21:48

Dawndonna if you go on the Citizens advice website, there are details on there of how to fill the PIP forms in, including things you wouldn't think about putting.We found it really helpful.

ConvincingLiar · 27/10/2016 07:42

fiverabbits I have a friend who's a new pip claimant who waited about ten months from assessment to decision. No explanation for it. Does seem a long time though. Might be worth chasing up. His DLA will stop a month after the decision, so keep an eye on it (in case the decision letter is lost in the post).

MatildatheCat tentatively I'd say that was right. If you were no longer entitled it is in your interests to have pip stopped earlier rather than risk a situation where you have an overpayment you have to pay back. The problem is if the first assessment was right and the renewal assessment is wrong. If you think they've got it wrong then I'd disagree with your Dh and encourage you to challenge it (getting on board any medics who are supportive and know you well).

MancKitten · 27/10/2016 08:00

Does anyone know how long it takes for them to sort your money out after winning your tribunal?

I won 2 weeks ago and am still getting the appeal rate of ESA and they are still sending letters asking for fit notes.

Which is annoying as when I 'failed' my original ATOS assessment they had stopped my money, HB, everything within 24 hours Hmm

Dawndonnaagain · 27/10/2016 10:50

Hookie Thank you! I shall take a look when they arrive. I'm terrified!

Magpiemagpie · 27/10/2016 11:14

My cousin just won her Appeal for PIP she was originally awarded no mobility & low rate care
She got high rate mobility & high rate care at the Tribunal
She did the Appeal herself no help from CAB or anyone legal just family typing everything up for her

Time wise it wasn't that bad 6 months from beginning to end
She applied in feb had Assement in May was refused in June
did a MR in June but was refused that and went to tribunal last week and won.

She got a letter from her doctor outlining her illness and how it affected her .
She enclosed all her medical appointment at her doctors records for the past 2 years she highlighted everything on the records that mentioned her wheelchair use
She enclose a copy of her most recent prescription for the tribunal
A copy of her blue badge that was awarded before she got PIP and a letter outlining that
Her most recent specialist appointments and future appointments at the pain clinic
She attended her appeal in person and got the result in 20 mins . she is knowledgable about her illness and I think that helped as well

The one thing I would say is photocopy the PIP form & anything that you send them so that you can refresh yourself with what you wrote and it's also evidence
And keep a file / box with everything you send them as well
Send everything recorded if possible and also follow up to check that it's been recieved as well one week later

Magpiemagpie · 27/10/2016 11:17

Manckitten
You should have the tribunal award
They the DWP have 28 days if they want to appeal it or take it to the next level tribunal
If they don't you should get it within a few weeks and all the back pay as well
If you ring them they can tell you what's happening especially as it's after 2 weeks it should be on the system by now

fiverabbits · 27/10/2016 12:07

Convincingliar

Thank you for the information. As he gets his DLA every Monday it is easy to check if it has been paid. The first letter he received was in September 2015 and the first date for the assessment was the 28th of April which they cancelled an hour before his appointment. I am dreading if he is turned down having had to appeal his DLA THREE times, the last time 13 years ago, I thought they could then realise he has an incurable disease.

ConvincingLiar · 27/10/2016 20:25

Good luck fiverabbits.

hookiewookie29 · 27/10/2016 23:40

If you do get awarded PIP, and you claim tax credits, ring them and tell them.Ours increased by over £100 a month.
If you need any alterations made to your house, then you can also get your council tax reduced.

Buttonmoonb4tea · 27/10/2016 23:55

You absolute Halo OP. Hope you you find something that provides genuine job satisfaction Flowers

Threetoedsloth · 28/10/2016 05:44

MNHQ- we need this to be accessible forever- my husband is a CBA volunteer, and has such a hideously low view of the system.

MancKitten · 28/10/2016 10:29

Surely if you have been through the grueling process if ESA it shouldn't have to be repeated for PIP. If the information is recent it should just be based off what is found at tribunal?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 28/10/2016 10:48

Surely if you have been through the grueling process if ESA it shouldn't have to be repeated for PIP. If the information is recent it should just be based off what is found at tribunal?

They are two different systems.

You can claim PIP and still work.

ESA is because you are unable to work.

LarrytheCucumber · 28/10/2016 10:51

hookiewookie it is not a given that you get reduced Council Tax if you make adaptations to your house. Depends on how many people live in the house and what the adaptations are.

Magpiemagpie · 28/10/2016 10:52

Manckitten ESA & PIP are totally different benefitsas far as the DWP is concerned. One is for your work ability the other for your illness and how it affects you
While it would seem common senses that one would be linked to the other PIP only seem to accept this if it's favourable to them , if it back up what the client says they disregard it as a rule

However while PIP didn't take into account the fact that my cousin was placed into the support group straight away only 2 months prior to PIP and that the Assement was done by a physiotherapist ( relevant to my cousins illness ) the tribunal did take it into account.
My cousin included the ESA award / statement from the physiotherapist and highlighted where he stated she had very limited mobility and limited use of her hands
PIP ignored this but the tribunal didn't and awarded her full levels of both PIP

Magpiemagpie · 28/10/2016 10:57

Also from what I can see many people that used to get DlA and work are being refused PIP as the test are designed this way
When reading on other forums about this it's virtually nearly always those that work in some way fail at the tribunal stage
Basically if you can work PIP is very very hard to get the test are every day test so if you are working it's often assumed that you can do the test therefore you don't need PIP

now whereas in the past DLA was set up to help people with disability to work /help with the cost of working , living while disabled

Briarthorn · 28/10/2016 11:12

That's true. DH deals with people who use motorbility cars in the course of his work and where a disabled person used to drive the car to enable them to work themselves, those that are able to are not qualifying and losing the PIP and the car. There are no specific questions about driving and the use of aids and adaptations and I wonder if this is deliberate...

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:22

There are no specific questions about driving and the use of aids and adaptations and I wonder if this is deliberate..

No, it's only really covered in Social and Occupational History during the assessment. The DA will ask if you drive, if so, how often? When did you last drive? Is it a manual or automatic? Are there any adaptations to the car?
Woe betide you if you say that you drive a manual, unadapted car even very occasionally, or for short journeys. It's a bit of a trap to check if your claims of arthritis in hands and feet/ankles are correct.

OP posts:
Briarthorn · 28/10/2016 11:32

I should imagine not being able to go on unfamiliar journeys is also tricky to prove if you drive even though lots of people stick to very familiar routes as drivers. I know I do, and I don't have any physical or neurological difficulties.

Is it right that an assessor can skip or discount answers to questions they deem not to apply? I'm thinking of a claim for a sixteen year old where the cooking and budgeting was ignored because they live at home and don't have to do it. Surely the legal test is if they are able to or not?

MattBerrysHair · 28/10/2016 11:34

Thank you so very much for this! I made an application this morning and I'm waiting for my form. I assumed they would get the evidence from my Dr and therapist. I'm so glad to know I should collect it myself.

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