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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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LongtimeLurkerNowPokemonHunter · 26/10/2016 10:34

ghost and nanny please find your local nass branch for ankylosing spondylitis. They're invaluable.

Sorry to detail.

Flowers to you OP thanks

Stilltryingtobeme · 26/10/2016 11:30

Wow, thanks so much op, This is such good advice. I am still on dla and dreading the change. I do manage to work as I work for a chiropractor who specialises in my condition and is so bloody understanding it's unreal. I'm terrified they'll use that against me. But I'll get them to write a letter in advance now I know they won't actually go looking for evidence. Funny enough, my council house application asked for all my medical specialists implying they'd contact them. They didn't and they turned me down. I appealed and won but they told me they never bothered to chase evidence. Disgusting

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 11:44

Interesting piece in Private Eye today about 7 out of 10 appeals succeeding.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?
OP posts:
Nannynowamummy · 26/10/2016 12:30

Ghost - well it can be quite entertaining to others watching me in THE most unladylike positions attempting (& failing) to get my socks and shoes on.

I have spoken to Nass, thank you. So hard with childcare going to hydro, physio, the consultants appointments, the professors appointments...

I also suffer from other issues....oral ulcers, blackout migraines (God my body hurts when I wake from falling) ribs fusing together so struggling to breathe....but hey, keep on keeping on.

Thankfully I have a lovely GP who is right whe he says AS is a "bonafide" disability.

Thank you again to the op.

Jaytee38 · 26/10/2016 12:43

Thank you for that andnowitsseven. Sorry no idea how to tag. That's a huge relief though.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 26/10/2016 13:17

I wish I'd known all of this before I applied. Lost my job last month for being off sick was told to apply for ESA initially and then for PIP. I'm living on £14.00 per week at the moment and live on my own. From what you've said OP, I've got a real battle ahead of me. Not sure I'm strong enough Sad

MatildaTheCat · 26/10/2016 13:20

Thank you.

I have recently had a pip reassessment. Be aware they can reassess at any point in the last year of the award. In my case I had a 3 year award and got the letter just two years and one week later. The assessor was a bitch...so much so I complained to Atos.

One further word of advice is to have someone with you and allow them to contribute. Often their perspective is helpful.

I was moved from higher rate to standard in both sections despite a raft of strong evidence that my condition has not and will not change. I will have to return my Motability car because there is no mechanism in place to 'hold' it while I ask for Mandatory Reconsideration.

The form completed by the assessor was full of inaccuracies and half truths. The complaint to Atos was not upheld because 'all their staff are highly trained and empathetic'.

So, I plod on. I am asking for Reconsideration. My MP is supporting me. My GP is furious. Her letter could not have been clearer. ( yes, I clocked that bit about them asking for more information if they need it, the hell they will). I supplied so much evidence the first time ( all ignored) that I have little more to add. I have no faith in the system and completely understand why many disabled people cannot face applying. It's nothing short of scandalous.

Rant over. Thank goodness some people have a conscience and refuse to work for this corrupt system.

Oblomov16 · 26/10/2016 13:22

Thanks OP. Unfortunately, You haven't told me anything I didn't know OP. I knew this already. Such a shame. I think a lot of people get tripped up though, because they just don't realise.

witchofzog · 26/10/2016 13:25

You should come and work for us op or someone similar. I work for a charity and help people with these forms a lot. We could do with someone like you 😊

Briarthorn · 26/10/2016 13:32

I complained to ATOs because the assessor asked if the client could make toast or a bowl of cereal, which constitutes be able to prepare a meal from fresh ingredients given they were awarded zero points. It doesn't, and case law backs this up thankfully. But it still has to go to tribunal. Let them eat toast. FFS.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 26/10/2016 13:38

Great post OP.

I haven't RTFT but wanted to add that many big cities have charities who can help you fill out the form properly in the first place. They know the phrases, what evidence is required, etc. I just made a successful DLA claim for DS and I wouldn't have got it through if it wasn't for the adviser I worked with.

Imnotacelebgetmeouttahere · 26/10/2016 13:48

This fills me with dread for when I need to help DS claim PIP. He has HFA and can do most of those things - but with me supervising every move - without me he wouldn't function fully Confused

CheshireChat · 26/10/2016 13:48

Unfortunately it seems that the only assessors that end up staying are the ones that believe the propaganda and that people are trying it on.

susiella · 26/10/2016 13:58

Further disheartening news for those who are going to a tribunal to appeal against disallowance. DWP is recruiting 86 new presenting officers to help DWP try to reduce claimants' success rates at PIP & ESA appeals. DWP will now also be identifying cases which can be appealed to the upper tribunal. i.e, DWP will appeal AGAINST your winning the appeal.For many 100s of claimants, this means trauma & stress will not end when they win the appeal. Instead, more uncertainty & misery awaits whilst they wait for an appeal to the upper tribunal to be heard. If DWP's further appeal is upheld, then at the very least this will mean another return to first-tier tribunal to argue their case again. In some cases, this will be denied. Another kick in the teeth for the genuinely disabled from the Tory bastards that dreamed this up. They truly cannot have a conscience.

user1476900263 · 26/10/2016 14:51

Maybe i was very lucky but none of the postings here or on the Toby young thread rang true for me.

I think its important and fair to post when your claims for both ESA and PIP were dealt with fairly and efficiently as in my case.

I first claimed for ESA two years ago (previously my family provided me with financial help for my needs 9 years) . The reason i never claimed before for ESA/DLA was partly down to these threads 'PUTTING THE FEAR OF GOD IN TO ME'. However, due to changes to family financial situation i needed to claim .

My experiences (though not perfect) bear no correlation to those posted on here ! Firstly i rang the DWP phone line in 'tears' to notify them of my claim it took 20 minutes for them to take the details the man taking the details was very 'calm' and considerate to my feelings. Explaining to me the process that would take place , how i would fill the 50 page booklet ETC.

I was put straight in to the Support Group without a Medical approx 6 weeks after my telephone call ( my evidence for ASD came from a Professor , as well as a letter from my G.P)

Finally in march this year i decided to go for PIP , so i went to a medical with my brother and was dealt with respect and common sense by the health care professional.

The result was i was given 10 points for the care component and qualified for the new standard rate of £55.10 PW . The letter also said that i was given the maximum 10 year period before any re assessment .

This was with the dreaded ATOS.

I think if you routinely condem an organization or government agency , it is only fair to post if you think you were personally treated fairly.

LarrytheCucumber · 26/10/2016 15:04

Cagliostro my DD has MS and actually surrendered DLA a few years back because she was doing well. She is now receiving maximum PIP because her condition deteriorated. You can always reapply.

NothingIsOK · 26/10/2016 15:08

Thanks for posting OP. There's a lot here that I wish I'd known sooner.

I've had my ESA contributions based stopped after a WCA, which is the face to face assessment for ESA. I fell into some of the very traps you describe... struggled to complete a movement and was classed as being able to do it, though I said it was very painful and would cause ongoing pain.... and they totally used the fact that I dragged myself to the meeting at great cost to my well being against me, again, even though I stated clearly that it was a huge problem for me to manage and would break me for the rest of the week.

I've appealed. Slowed down by the fact I've just had major surgery, which doesn't help my claim a true all due to the timing of it in relation to the WCA meeting. Neither of my previous surgeries in the claim period count either because, well, I don't know really. It's a bag of shite that's not fit for purpose.

NothingIsOK · 26/10/2016 15:09

Ironically, my PIP claim went very smoothly and was awarded without need for review for another ten years. Go figure.

PermenantLurker · 26/10/2016 15:17

Wellfare Rights can be a great help with benefit forms & appeals for anyone struggling with this

CheshireChat · 26/10/2016 16:16

It's good to see that some people had a fairly straightforward process and that people were treated decently.

Probably got someone like the OP who was genuinely trying to help.

4catsaremylife · 26/10/2016 17:09

I wish my 21 yo ASD DD's recent PIP assessment had gone as smoothly as the ops on here did. I was utterly appalled by the DA constantly ignoring my dd's answers to his questions and then twisting them back at her so much so she was completely confused by him. An example of this was DA asked her if she could go out alone? She answered no, he then changed tactic and asked if she had no one to go with her and had to get to hospital because she (or I ) was seriously ill could she go? Again the answer was no! So then again he moved the goal posts asking can you use Google Maps? My DD who was utterly confused at this point said "I suppose I could follow the dot?". That question didn't address the fact that DD is incapable of travelling alone as her anxiety is so great. She cannot use public transport alone for fear that they may deviate from her familiar route and (as has happened in the past) she will be left in an unfamiliar rural spot (we live in the back of beyond) unable to work out how to get back to somewhere familiar. She would not be able to ask for directions as she is non verbal with strangers and mobile coverage is patchy at best so how does Google Map help her then?! I have a background working in MH prior to having my dc 2 of whom are ASD and the other has MH issues and it was commented on in his notes "Mum seems extremely knowledgeable about this condition and dd was clean and tidy in appearance. I came home and cried. Then I wrote a complaint about the DA and sent it but sure enough the report arrived saying DD's ASD and ADHD have no impact on her life.So now I have to appeal the decision. I feel broken.

debka · 26/10/2016 17:13

Great post OP. My partner is an LD nurse and a PIP assessor and he says the same as you regarding MH and LD. Not an easy job at all, he comes home either upset or angry every day.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 26/10/2016 17:17

www.rnib.org.uk/launch-welfare-rights-service-people-sensory-loss
Just for info for anyone with sight or hearing loss in Wales (or both) this is a great team who will help with benefit applications and appeals.
The system is shit Angry

LarrytheCucumber · 26/10/2016 17:53

4Cats A friend of mine accompanied an adult with learning difficulties to her assessment and the questions sound very similar. They don't seem to be tailored to individual cases.

GettingitwrongHauntingatnight · 26/10/2016 17:59

Thank you op. I have been tjinking about applying for PIP as I have several long term health condidtions but have some what been put off by things I've read about how hard it is to claim. I also have other reasons.