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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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Lanaorana1 · 28/10/2016 11:38

Brilliant, brilliant OP.

Is this only MN post the Daily Mail won't republish this week?

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:49

When you send in info to the DWP, always put your PIP claim number, or NI number, on each piece of paper.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:51

Is it right that an assessor can skip or discount answers to questions they deem not to apply? I'm thinking of a claim for a sixteen year old where the cooking and budgeting was ignored because they live at home and don't have to do it. Surely the legal test is if they are able to or not?

Their ability to do every task should be explored fully by the DA during the assessment, whether the claimant tackles that role in the home or not.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:52

The question that the DA should explore should be CAN they do it, not DO they do it.

OP posts:
MuffinMad · 28/10/2016 11:53

Great information,OP. Going to be watching this thread very closely. Thank you Smile.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:54

If anyone really wants the DWP guide for Disability Assessors, it's here. All 160 pages of the sodding thing;

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf

OP posts:
Imnotacelebgetmeouttahere · 28/10/2016 11:55

Can I ask what would happen in the case of a 16yr old that can make toast supervised but nothing else ... would he be deemed able to " cook"?

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:56

I see that it's been updated in September 2016; I don't know what that update is, however, and if anything has been changed. I did my last assessment before that update.

OP posts:
MyWineTime · 28/10/2016 11:56

Thank you for posting this, it is very useful information.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:58

No; making a meal involves chopping and preparing vegetables, as well as cooking a meal on a hob/microwave. Cooking in an oven doesn't count, as bending is covered in other tasks.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 11:59

And if you require supervision (or prompting) for preparing a meal, that should be reflected in the scoring for that task.

OP posts:
Briarthorn · 28/10/2016 12:01

That's what I thought, about the cooking question too, and it has formed the basis of the MR. The trouble is, it isn't until the appeal stage that you can challenge these things and it's taking the best part of a year for some people, all because the assessor isn't doing their job properly.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 12:05

Here's the stuff from the DWP PIP guide about food preparation;

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?
...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?
...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?
OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 28/10/2016 12:14

Just received the application pack.

I am going to create an editable PDF and work on that.

Given they have gone to great lengths to make this as difficult as possible without actually printing white ink on white paper, it won't go down well ?

ESA was a doddle compared to this.

Falsenails77 · 28/10/2016 14:16

Great post OP very useful info for people.

I personally have given up with PIP, I was awarded standard rate 3 years ago after appealing as I had been turned down at first, I was just 1 point away I had 7 and needed 8. I felt justified in appealing as they had said that i could manage complex bills and money, which was and still is not the case.

This summer they requested a reassessment which I went to in September, the original assessment was at home as I just wasn't well enough to travel I had just come out of hospital. This time however I went to one of the centres as a friend said they would take me and I felt well enough although I kind of knew that would go against me from things I had read and been told. For my original assessment my CPN told me to treat it as if I was having my worse day, to do that I would have to have had the assessment in hospital whilst having ECT! For this recent assessment I took with me a document from my consultant which lists my illnesses, a recent report from a psychotherapist I'd been seeing and my prescription showing the medications I'm on.

I have Bipolar, Emotionally unstable personality disorder and an eating disorder. I have had mental health problems since i was 15 and was first put on anti depressants at 15 and have been on constant medication since then, I'm 39 now, so a long time taking medication. The amount of medication I'm on now is ridiculous, mood, stabilizers, anti psychotics, anti depressants, benzo's etc.. I take 8 different medications although one of which is for IBS.

I have been hospitalized 5 times in 21 years, 3 of those times i have received courses ECT. The last episode was two years ago and I had a 12 session course of ECT which I think is the maximum. Just mentioning this as it shows this is a long term illness and has severely affected me for a long time.

The personality disorder has come about from dealing with the bipolar all these years, I totally overreact at the simplest things but obviously that is because at times in my life things have been awful so when I start to feel anxious it magnifies as I think I may heading for another bipolar episode. It is the personality disorder that affects me more in daily life. It is so hard to explain mental illness as no two hours/days/months are the same.It affects my life in so many ways, which I did explain to them.

Anyway I went for the assessment, tried to explain as best I could and was totally honest and as suspected I was turned down and was given a grand total of 0 points! I just haven't got the energy to appeal and I am so angry at the report, I think the points that galled me the most was that they said I was of good intellect!!!! What the heck does my intellect have to do with it, I could have the IQ of Einstein (I obviously don't Grin ) but that still wouldn't stop me from having my illnesses. Also they used the fact that I walk everywhere (I do this because I don't drive and cant cope with public transport) and the fact I go to the gym against me. I did explain to the assessor that the gym is a way of controlling my eating disorder and to be honest it is completely exhausting at times. Thankfully at the moment it isn't too bad and I am going 2/3 times a week but when I go through a bad spell I'm there daily for hours. I constantly calorie count whether I'm going through a bad spell or not which affects cooking etc.. it's all so complex I won't bore you with all the ins and outs with that.

I don't work, I've never managed to keep a job for long as I completely throw myself into it and then end up getting too overwhelmed and ill that I end up either going off sick or leave. My CV is awful and I haven't been in employment for just over 3 years now, I've been actively trying for the last 6 months and been for interviews but haven't been successful. I do however do voluntary work for a mental health charity who are very good and understand if I can't do it sometimes due to my illness, the fact I do voluntary was used against me in the report.

My husband was all for writing to them to appeal but I just can't through it all again. Sorry for hijacking the thread with my woes but it has been quite cathartic to vent.

I wish all the people currently applying well, I hope my post may have helped in some way.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 28/10/2016 22:33

Falsenails, they rely on you not appealing. 7 out of 10 are currently winning their appeals.

OP posts:
Qwerdy1234 · 28/10/2016 22:53

False nails cam I just say I failed my assesment. 0 points. It was horrible.

I appealed and the judge/Dr was MUCH more understandingredients and helpful with MH issues. I got awarded the support group for 2 years.

Its worrying but they are not ATOS and generally want to help.

After reading that I have no doubt you will pass you appeal at tribunal.

PlayOnWurtz · 28/10/2016 22:55

Sorry if this has been asked. My renewal is due in the new year and I stupidly didn't keep copies of what I submitted with my application. Do I have to send copies of all my diagnosis reports etc again and treat it like a new application or do I just submit things as they are now?

Magpiemagpie · 28/10/2016 23:01

With PIP/ ESA theses are a few things that I have read happening
You have to think about why are they asking here questions they don't want to give you anything they want to take it all away from you

So If you have mobility problems they will try to send you to a centre miles away. My cousin went to one 35 miles away despit there being 2 within 3 miles of her home .

If you say you have problems walking or mobilising they will send you to the furthest office from the reception it will be more than 20 meters which is the furthest you can walk to in order get HR mobility if you do this then you have failed at the gate for mobility

If you have a handbag with you they will say your grip is fine

If you shake hands your grip is fine

If your well dressed and presented then that obviously shows no sign of any mental health problems , disorganisation and anxiety

If you get up on to the bed / table in the room they will say you mobilised without any problems

If you can speak clearly and be understood or have a good grasp of your illness then they will say that your clearly not that ill

If you suffer from agrophobia they will insist on a centre assessment which then proves that you can leave the house so your not actually agrophobic

If they ask if you have any dogs they will say that you like to walk your dog even if you don't ,or can't

If they ask about your driving licence and you say yes you have one they will assume that you can drive

If they ask about what tv programmes you watch and you say EastEnders they will say that you have no problems in following complex problems and no problems with concentration

If you really want to be successful then you need to go In in a wheelchair & be pushed by someone with your hands bandaged up and in splints and a interpreter and/ or wear the oldest smelliest clothes you can find in fact borrow them from a tramp or let your dogs piss on them for a week and rub some shit in to just give a nice pong . Don't bath for a week and the night before down half a bottle of vodka and some sleeping tablets so you look even worse .

If you can't walk and can't speak and can't use your hands and look like shit you will qualify for top rate of everything.
If you can do something no matter how small then everything is up for grabs from PIP

I could go on forever but I'm sure you all get it

PlayOnWurtz · 28/10/2016 23:05

One of the things they tried with me - I have severe daily migraine and cluster headaches - was to get me to read a BNF when I was mid attack in the assessment centre - to read up on a medication the assessor was 'recommending'

I couldn't read it, couldn't concentrate on the page, couldn't tell you what anything on that page said, but it got written in my report I had no issues with focus, concentration and eyesight during attacks so they couldn't understand why I need support with medications... Hmm

Qwerdy1234 · 28/10/2016 23:06

^and then get done for fraud when you go back to your normal (yet completely debilitating ways) without all the showmanship necessary to 'show' them you are ill.

I am already worrying about that. But then part of my condition is I worry about everything :(

Magpiemagpie · 28/10/2016 23:08

Also lots of people are awared low rate care on the basis of using aids to help them do stuff so
This is because if the government get there way in the future the use of aids will be disregarded in terms of awarding pip care so people will only get points for assistance and not using aids .
They want to give one one off payments for aids as they say tht most aids people already have in there house or they are very low cost

They tried to bring this in in feb his year but it got kicked out ( can't remember the exact details,) but there was a big uproar about it in the press earlier this year ,but that not to say that they won't try again later on

Becca19962014 · 28/10/2016 23:16

I have a question, I'm on indefinite DLA (which I know isn't obviously). I do not own a telephone as I cannot use one, do they still insist on telephone assessments at all? There's zero welfare help where I live (very rural) and the social worker I see won't get involved with benefits or service applications. There's a welfare rights worker who comes a couple of times a year, but the office isn't accessible and they only deal with tribunals.

With assessments the nearest is closing, the next nearest requires me to be able to manage steps at an inaccessible train station. I know they do not offer home assessments in my or neighbouring county, do they ever allow pip without medicals?

I'm preparing to get nothing, but as I saw this thread thought I'd ask.

My last ESA application had sixty pages of additional information (expensive medical reports) but that won't be possible this time as I have been discharged as untreatable by local clinic (still miles away) and cannot get to the clinic which could possibly help (too far).

Becca19962014 · 28/10/2016 23:22

The thing to do with discounting aids has been attempted before and there was a lot of campaigning by disability groups to stop it at the preliminary stage.

ESA is made more strict for both groups every year.

Pip will probably also get much harder to claim.

leanback · 28/10/2016 23:26

It's really discriminatory against those with visual and hearing impariments also. I used to work for a visual impairment charity and watched people be refused pip because the assessor clearly didn't understand how blindness might have an effect on a person getting dresses, going to the toilet, getting into bed at night. One woman lost out on pip because she didn't put winter clothes on in the summer even though she had described how she couldn't tell if clothing was stained or matched before putting it on. Apparently if she didn't wear the wrong seasonal clothing then her eyesight wasn't 'bad' enough regardless of the fact she can feel the weight and material of clothing. Complete rediculous.