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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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Nannynowamummy · 25/10/2016 22:38

Dawn - you have Ankylosing Spondylitis? I have it....Sad & don't get to chat to many people that understand it. I don't know if you mean that or Aspergers. Sorry.

CheshireChat · 25/10/2016 22:39

I remember there's an area of mumsnet where people ask about PIP claims, legal maybe? You could post there as well if you feel up to it.

Pineapplemilkshake · 25/10/2016 22:39

Good advice - I'm a GP and already seeing the heartbreak that the new PIP assessment system is causing. I used to receive requests for medical evidence when it was DLA, but these have practically stopped and decisions seem to be based solely on the short assessment carried out by the Capita HCP. It's s nightmare - patients are coming in their droves asking for letters from me to back up their claims and as I work in a very deprived area where 1 in 8 patients are on DLA or PIP (we haven't completely changed over yet in NI) there simply isn't time. So gathering up medical evidence, particularly copies of hospital visits, consultant letters, physio and OT reports is invaluable,

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:40

Another thing; if you have MH problems, require secondary care/community support and haven't heard from your care team for a while; then contact them to at least get a record that you're still under their care. If you haven't been seen for a while, make sure it isn't because you've been temporarily forgotten. The PIP assessor will be under pressure to put that you've been discharged, and therefore you're cured or at least you're not as unwell as you claimed.
PIP is designed for a magical world where everyone with serious MH conditions has some kind of CMHT support. The reality is that a lot of people who need that help don't get it; the assumption if that if you're only under the care of your GP, then you can't really be that bad. It completely ignores the realities of NHS MH provision.

OP posts:
Nuggy2013 · 25/10/2016 22:40

Second what others have said, thanks OP, people will find this really useful and you clearly were far too good an egg to do this job! Really hope you find something worthy of a kind heart

legotits · 25/10/2016 22:40

Best of luck to you OP.

Good Job. Halo

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:44

CheshireChat, I put this in AIBU for traffic really. I'll put a link in that forum.

OP posts:
sepsisandAKI · 25/10/2016 22:44

Really useful info. Thanks I'll be able to pass this on.

AndNowItsSeven · 25/10/2016 22:46

Excellent thread op, thank you.

AndNowItsSeven · 25/10/2016 22:47

This thread is a breath of fresh air amongst all the disabalist threads/post that are rife atm.

Dawndonnaagain · 25/10/2016 22:49

Apologies, I have Asperger's Syndrome, Nanny!

Jaded2004 · 25/10/2016 22:49

Thank you for posting this and for having the strength of character to stand up and say that the process is wrong. I have 8 illnesses! Three rare and chronic and my quality of life is poor. I have recently had a reassessment and was awarded a much lower rate based on the assessors report which was full of ridiculous misinformation. I sent in 28 specialists letters, 28!!! One from the worlds leading specialist in the condition and they basically ignored them because the assessors report stated otherwise.
People really really need people like you that will stand up and speak out.

milkysmum · 25/10/2016 22:55

💐

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:57

I've had a mooch around the site, there doesn't seem to be a specific area for benefits talk though to put a link in? Unless I've missed it.

OP posts:
YouTheCat · 25/10/2016 22:58

Just got ds's letter that his dla will end and have to apply for Pip on his behalf as he is very severely disabled and has no speech and very little understanding of the world around him.

I shall have to get on to his care workers for reports and such like. Total nightmare. I don't see why they can't just transfer people with a lifetime award over to pip. Surely it would mean a lot less paperwork for them?

Cagliostro · 25/10/2016 23:02
Thanks

You're a good person OP.

I haven't even tried going for PIP, or filled in the form to get our housing list priority raised on medical grounds. I just feel hopeless about it TBH.

I got DLA for a year but stupidly didn't renew as when the award ended I was feeling ok.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 23:02

Before I call it a night, I'll do a quick abbreviation guide.
MSK - Musculoskeletal assessment
MSE - Mental State Examination
FME - Further Medical Evidence.
HOC - History of Conditions
IO - Informal Observations
CQ - Claimant Questionnaire
SOH - Social and Occupational History

OP posts:
SecretSpy · 25/10/2016 23:04

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/docs/pdf/g/guideclaimpip.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi2nJrL-vbPAhWLOxQKHUWDDIoQFggdMAE&usg=AFQjCNF32NK8jj_BxH98XPb9YTH-0LK7Rw&sig2=VxtfbHMaJKUk0zhh3nzE4Q" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/docs/pdf/g/guideclaimpip.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi2nJrL-vbPAhWLOxQKHUWDDIoQFggdMAE&usg=AFQjCNF32NK8jj_BxH98XPb9YTH-0LK7Rw&sig2=VxtfbHMaJKUk0zhh3nzE4Q this Herts county council guide looked quite useful as well

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 23:04

If you can provide enough written evidence, YouTheCat, sometimes people don't require a face to face assessment if the evidence is strong enough. That doesn't happen often enough, though.

OP posts:
SecretSpy · 25/10/2016 23:07

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/docs/pdf/p/PIP&ved=0ahUKEwi2nJrL-vbPAhWLOxQKHUWDDIoQFggmMAI&usg=AFQjCNGta8_kvUVgVfdI9cI-EIdOYuU3vg&sig2=OQFOcHytBanilKUHsgph5Q" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/docs/pdf/p/PIP&ved=0ahUKEwi2nJrL-vbPAhWLOxQKHUWDDIoQFggmMAI&usg=AFQjCNGta8_kvUVgVfdI9cI-EIdOYuU3vg&sig2=OQFOcHytBanilKUHsgph5Q also from Herts cc a guide with the points on.

Chikara · 25/10/2016 23:08

Thank you OP. Useful to me in one of my jobs..
Agree that the system is designed to make people fail. I have seen people who can barely walk, hardly see and who depend almost completely on a carer deemed fit for work. AS WHAT FFS??????

I imagine the advice applies to ESA claimants too.

JustAnotherFopar · 25/10/2016 23:13

Excellent post teenagepip I'm going to send to my DH as he advises people too.
It's such a stressful situation to be in so I'm sure this will really help. Good work ⭐⭐⭐

JustAnotherFopar · 25/10/2016 23:16

There's some info here about actually claiming. It's from the MS Trust but does have good suggestions/information x

www.mssociety.org.uk/ms-support/disability-benefits/PIP

YouTheCat · 25/10/2016 23:26

Iwas, ds has a deprivation of liberty order for his own safety. I'm hoping that'll give the idea that he needs constant supervision. But I'll gather as much information as I can and thanks very much for the advice.

TheBouquets · 25/10/2016 23:28

I have been to a Tribunal over this. I had DLA then PIP and then I was refused. I have something which is incurable. It does make me wonder how good the Drs on these panels are. The one I got had absolutely no idea about my health problem. Would the panel not research the conditions they have coming in that day? It is scary to think that a Dr knows so little about a condition and unfortunately this is not the only Dr I have found so lacking in the knowledge I need them to have to treat and assess my state of health.