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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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Room101isWhereIUsedToLive · 25/10/2016 23:37

Just bumping as I think this is excellent advice and hope that more people see it.
Thank you OP. Flowers

Mybrainishurtingme · 25/10/2016 23:41

Thank you so much for posting this. DH has been receiving ESA but I didn't realise until I found a 'do you qualify' type 'quiz' online that he may be eligible for PIP.
Phoned Monday to start the claim and been frantically googling for any advice.
I had no idea for a start that he could request a home visit for assessment - I assume we just wait for the claim for to request that?

He has severe depression and anxiety and is under the care of the CAMHS service (though I am constantly chasing them really appointments as they seem to frequently 'forget about him')

We do keep all letters from Dr psychiatrist etc so fingers crossed

It just means if we can get some financial assistance then it can relieve some of the stresses and pressures he puts on himself to get well and support us. He's a changed person from who I used to know and just wish I could get that man back Confused

I have added this to the threads I am watching

Queenofthehighteas · 25/10/2016 23:45

Just wanted to say thank you so much for posting this. I have a chronic illness which causes physical disability and am currently on indefinite DLA but got the dreaded PIP letter in the post today.

My illness is mostly invisible to the average onlooker (which is what worries me most about the PIP assessment) but, as is the case for many others on this thread my illness causes me immense daily pain. I take a shed load of medication just to keep me functioning and will be on it for the rest of my life.

For me, this is a very timely, and incredibly useful thread. Thank you so so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise.

summerainbow · 25/10/2016 23:50

The rnib does a good booklet too
www.rnib.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-toolkit
It explains the system too you from sight lost perspective.

Jaytee38 · 26/10/2016 01:22

Ive recently had my assessment for PIP for change over from DLA.

I find it really unfair if you get penalised for not providing medical letters as in their document it tells you that you don't need to arrange getting letters as they will write to your named health professionals if needed.

Don't know if this is a thing in the health region I live in but patients never get copies of the letters that get sent between Drs. Im claiming on mental health issues which are probably worse than when i first claimed DLA.

Also and im hoping some one might know? My ESA rate is affected by the fact i get DLA. Surely a decision about PIP has to be decided before this date runs out?

The government should be held to account for the mental torment they put people through.

YouTheCat · 26/10/2016 08:36

Well, I have just started the dla to pip process for my ds. Spoke to a really lovely and helpful person who has put in a request for a home visit for his assessment, if required.

Also bumping as this is important.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 26/10/2016 08:38

One big thing to remember is it about how your disability affects you. Not the disability itself.

MancKitten · 26/10/2016 08:41

I failed my original ATOS assessment for ESA. I have MH problems. The assessor basically lied on the paperwork. Said I was fine. Good eye contact etc...

Told me I wasn't 'rocking'. Yes because all 'mental people' rock. Hmm

I won my tribunal but it was THE most stressful process I have ever been through.

I was self harming over it and my suicidal thoughts peaked.

Legs22 · 26/10/2016 08:42

Op can you copy this to disability rights UK?

GhostInTheBackOfYourHead · 26/10/2016 08:47

Thank you Op, you are a good soul. I hope that by paying it forward life treats you well.

nannynowamummy I have Ankylosing Spondylosis as well as other issues. It's grim, isn't it?

GrinchyMcGrincherson · 26/10/2016 08:58

DH got full everything the first time then reassessed just two years later and stripped of the lot. After appeal we got mid level.

His condition hasn't changed, his meds have increased but the second assessment we went to them (and he struggled up 3 bloody stairs because he couldn't walk all the way round the block to the disabled entrance at the back) and he did the stupid msk tests (each one leaving him in pain) We didn't know he could refuse.

We have just put in a change in circumstances so I'm going to ask for home assessment and tell him not to do the stupid msk tests.

Thank you so much for this.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:05

You do have to be careful about the MSK; if you don't do the exercises, you need to say why; it's unsafe, it causes too much pain etc. Personally, I would say it was better to attempt them but not complete them, rather than a straight refusal.
You'll need to provide written evidence too, otherwise the DA has nothing to go on.

OP posts:
HeyMacWey · 26/10/2016 09:14

A frank and honest post teenagepipassesor.
I have an invisible illness the impact of which can vary from hour to home, and day to day, and have put off applying for pip due to the assumptions made. I'm in support group for esa so probably would qualify but just can't bring myself to go through the process.
Guidance I've read says about being able to do something repeatedly, reliably and safely - how much of this is taken on board do you think?
For example, on a bad day when I'm having a relapse I might be able to walk 50m but it'll take me three times as long, I'll have to rest along the way, and I wouldn't be able to do it again for another day. On 'better' days I might be able to walk 200m with no problems, but couldn't do this repeatedly.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:16

Here's the full MSK, as far as I can remember. Forgive me if I forget one.

Put arms behind head, and clasp hands.
Put hands below lower back, and clasp hands.
Fold arms across chest, then look to left and right.
Touch chin to chest.

Touch toes while seated.
Hold onto object, balance on one foot then the other.
Bend knees, then raise, while standing.
Stand on tip toes.
Run hands down leg to below knee while standing.

Power and pincer grip using forefinger and thumb. This is to test your ability to use aids/adaptations, use buttons, shoelaces etc.

The DA will also watch you from the moment thet introduce themselves to the moment they finish the assessment. These are called Informal Observations, and are very important; they are looking for evidence that backs up or refutes your claim; can you scratch your face/grasp ID/raise a drink to your lips? can you walk? How far/gait etc. Can you sit to stand and vice versa?

OP posts:
AliceInUnderpants · 26/10/2016 09:17

Thank you so much Iwas, especially the advice about returning supporting evidence with the application. I would have thought they would chase for information, and would have allowed them to as it would be less stress for me.

I have multiple health conditions, and my GP, neurologist and psychologist have been pressing me to apply for PIP for around 18 months now, but it's the thought of the stress involved that is putting me off. But we are really starting to struggle now Sad

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:19

HeyMacWey, a good DA will take all the four considerations very seriously; as well as those three, you have to be able to do something 'to an acceptable standard'. It has to be the basis of the report.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:24

Alice, the one thing I'd stress is the importance of supporting info. If those involved in your care would be happy to write a short note confirming you conditions, and the way in which those conditions limit your ability to manage everyday activities, that would be really useful. They don't need to be long reports either, just a short note confirming diagnoses really helps.

OP posts:
HeyMacWey · 26/10/2016 09:25

Thanks teenage.
What puts me off is that if you looked at me you wouldn't know there was anything wrong - I know you guys are under ridiculous pressure and are working in a failing system so I think I'd struggle to meet the criteria at assessment as I 'present' well.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:32

What's important is how you are the majority of the time.
A bit of advice about presenting well; don't.
If you have an invisible illness, don't turn up looking your best, honestly. It'll count against you. Appearance, dressing appropriately for the weather conditions, all this is covered in IO.

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 26/10/2016 09:32

Personally, I would say it was better to attempt them but not complete them, rather than a straight refusal.

This is what I did.

My assessor actually told me to stop as I went as white as a sheet and looked like I was going to pass out with pain. Sad

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:35

Note I'm not mentioning which type of HP I am, who I worked for, where I worked, or even my gender. I'm not daft; I worry about these companies being vindictive.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:36

Pigler, I had to do that a few times myself.

OP posts:
LifeLong13 · 26/10/2016 09:45

Well done OP beautiful written!
In my spare time I help people appeal their PIP decisions & sometimes when I can get time off work accompany them to their assessments. I can see how the assessors are stuck between a broken system and people who are mentally broken down by the system.

Much respect to you.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 26/10/2016 09:49

To those health professionals thinking that you can do this job, and make a difference; I really don't think you can. I thought I could, but the system is stacked against you. If your reports appear too sympathetic, they'll get sent back to you. Repeatedly. Don't let the government and these companies use your HP status or registration to do their dirty work. They can't recruit enough HP's keep up with people leaving in droves, that's why their adverts are everywhere.
PIP is discriminatory towards those with 'invisible illnesses'. I do this to try and even the score. It seems to be the only thing I can do.

OP posts:
AndNowItsSeven · 26/10/2016 09:58

Jaytee your dla will continue after the end date until a month after a pip decision is made.