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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
cheekymonk · 03/02/2017 22:07

Thank you for this Smile

Dowser · 03/02/2017 22:09

Helena as I understand it, if you were over the cut off date of 65 in April 2013 I believe then you stay on dla .
If you are over 65 and not on Pip then as I understand it you are not able to claim it...I think there might be other benefits. Pension tax credit maybe

Anyone else, apparently regardless of their condition gets an assessment which is just stupid.

If your husband has a recognised condition ie where there might be a charity, you could try ringing them for advice on how to fill in the form.

Good luck. This has been the cruellest thing. I have a friend who works in benefits and she said rather than it weeding out the lead swingers it's actually shown just how ill and vulnerable people really are.

MadameOvary · 03/02/2017 23:11

Thank you for this.

HelenaDove · 03/02/2017 23:18

Thankyou Becca and Dowser Thanks Thanks

He is already in receipt of PC but i will ring Age UK on Monday and see what they say.

OopsDearyMe · 03/02/2017 23:25

I went in circles got deemed fit by assessors, when I went to sign on, was told I was unfit and this went on for 12 months, that was ESA.
I have found that pip was less of a problem.

Becca19962014 · 03/02/2017 23:42

Hopefully helena you'll be ok. Prepare to fail and then, hopefully, when you don't you'll feel even better!!

Oblomov17 · 06/02/2017 14:15

Has Op left?
I posted before. About dh, not sure he really qualifies, but... we went to assessment. Got the letter, he scored 0. I wouldn't have minded if he hadn't reached the criteria, got enough points... but zero?

She said he could stand and walk 200 metres. Well, yes, on the day of the assessment, he could. Stand. But she doesn't know he can walk 200 metres does she? In a room 12 ft by 12 ft. As it happens, on the day in question, he leg was quite good. Typical!! But cant sometimes. Sometimes your leg is better than at other times, for some, isn't it?

Sometimes he cant get out of bed he's so ill, and the kidney and bowel issues mean he can't make it to the toilet, especially if the leg (the other issue) is bad.
But, other days he's fine. on both counts.

Guess that's why we don't qualify eh?

Babyroobs · 06/02/2017 14:47

If you are over 65 you apply for attendance allowance rather than PIP. I think it still involves an assessment unless you are terminally ill.

HelenaDove · 06/02/2017 18:16

Babyroobs According to what ive seen online if you are over 65 and you were already in recipt of DLA before the age of 65 you can APPLY for PIP. Then ive seen other ppl post that they were told they were too old at 67 to apply for it. DH is 67 in 4 weeks coincidentally.

What i will be asking them is "Is he too old to RECEIVE PIP. I know its all in the wording.

AA doesnt have a mobility component so will have to find out more about that too.

Becca19962014 · 06/02/2017 18:35

helena there's nothing for over 65s for mobility as it's considered 'normal' (if you'll forgive the use of that word) for people over that age to struggle with walking so it's care needs only. So if you have a motability car it must go back as he would no longer qualify on AA. That's why you're allowed to apply for PIP after 65 ONLY if you've had it or DLA before 65.

I know from another site I'm on there are issues about people being told they're too old for PIP and forced over to AA to save moneywhich didn't happen before if you were on DLA before 65 and continued to meet the criteria.

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 06/02/2017 18:47

Oblomov - at DDs assessment last week they noted down that on a good day she could walk 20 miles, but on a bad day she couldn't get out of bed.(at least she was typing when DD was explaining that). I think you need to be quite forceful about the variableness of a condition, starting with the worst case scenario, and then best case.

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 06/02/2017 18:49

and you need to be affected at least 50% of the time (not at your worst 50% of the time, but affected) in order to qualify for any points in a section. So you need to phrase your answers to show that, in both the application and the assessment.

HelenaDove · 06/02/2017 19:52

helena there's nothing for over 65s for mobility as it's considered 'normal' (if you'll forgive the use of that word) for people over that age to struggle with walking so it's care needs only

And yet they have upped the retirement age.

HelenaDove · 06/02/2017 19:55

Becca Ive seen the same thing about PIP and AA The threads ive been reading are likely to be on the same site you are on i reckon.

hennipenni · 06/02/2017 20:07

Just seen this thread, very timely as my daughter suffered a brain haemorrhage type brain injury which has left her with a right sided weakness, aphasia and dyspraxia amongst other things. Advised by her consultant to start a claim for PIP, I'm now dreading it having seen this thread!

Becca19962014 · 06/02/2017 20:10

If I was cynical I'd say that's the whole point which I am

Becca19962014 · 06/02/2017 20:11

henni take the advice here, she might be ok. It's very hit and miss.

hennipenni · 06/02/2017 20:18

Becca we've got nothing to lose so I'm going to start the process rolling tomorrow.

Becca19962014 · 06/02/2017 20:27

Good luck henni . Hopefully it'll be stress free for you and her - the first part is a medical over the phone so she'll need to be ready for that, they don't just send a form, they send a specific set of questions. I don't know if they'll let you do it for her if she can speak/hear.

I also think part of the problem is that people don't always post about their positive experiences. I've had mixed with my conditions.

hennipenni · 06/02/2017 20:35

Becca I hope they'll let me speak for her, as she's aphasic and unable to get her words out it could be fun (or prove a point) if they don't.
She's only just turned 16 and is going through a terrible ordeal so I won't be happy if they put her under anymore stress than she's going through.

HelenaDove · 06/02/2017 20:41

Good luck Henni.

Becca19962014 · 06/02/2017 20:44

Be prepared to argue to do that. The questions will be very intrusive as will a medical. Not trying to put you off but you need to know she'll get a form based on the phone medical only, not anything else so you need to know all needs, they won't have any understanding of the conditions she has, it's done on need alone.

Have you looked on various disability websites for help with this? I suggest you do so.

Medicals can be very humiliating, and, manipulative - e.g. if telephone number on application they'll assume she can use a telephone. In my area the only way to appeal is a court room. The last appeal I went through I abandoned as I was treated like I was personally taking money from the people on the panel and, was humiliated. I was asked a lot of very personal questions (bladder/bowel incontience) and the person with me wasn't allowed to answer.

It's a very stressful process, delibrately so to put people off applying. A lot of medics have no idea how difficult it is.

HelenaDove · 06/02/2017 20:51

Im DHs appointee so they will mostly be dealing with me.

HelenaDove · 06/02/2017 20:52

Becca thats awful Im sorry you went through that.

Becca19962014 · 06/02/2017 22:35

henni I really hope I haven't put you off, reading it back I might have. Please try and be strong for her in the process.

helena the system for those on their own where there is no representation for benefit medicals/appeals is horrendous, and is why my county is one of the lowest in the country for people on benefits. It's not high employment/people being healthy it's lack of support with the process and as the government then lose you from unemployment/disabled stats as your claim us closed it gives them false stats (or not depending on your cynicism).