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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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LurkingHusband · 17/11/2016 14:11

Lurking in that case your comment about getting £s to those who deserve it slightly misfired (assuming it was meant sarcastically).

I was trying to point out that any officially sanctioned statement that PIP was somehow "failing" as it wasn't saving money, should be challenged with reference to the fact we were told it wasn't. I know Tories are well skilled at making their own manifestos disappear, but they are less skilled at making Google disappear.

I've met some people who insist that poster is a fake.

LurkingHusband · 17/11/2016 14:14

I'm sure having to employ medical people, and legal people to act as 'judges' etc for all these thousands of appeals must cost more than - just continuing paying the DLA to those who are, you know, disabled.

No one cares. It was never about "saving money". It was about enforcing the Tory ideology on us. Like the Bedroom Tax. If campaigners wanted to scrap the Bedroom Tax, their best tactic would be to demonstrate that it encouraged people to think better of those worse off. It'd be off the statute books before you could say "sanctioned". We can't have dangerous stuff like that going on, donchaknow ?

EveryDayIsASchoolDay · 17/11/2016 17:46

Thanks Banned.
Joffrey it sounds like you're having a stressful time. Sorry to hear that.
It is such a difficult time and all of the not knowing and inconsistencies doesn't help at all. I wonder how long it takes for them to inform people of the outcome once they have all of the info.
Anyone know if they'll update you over the phone?

BannedexPIPassessor · 17/11/2016 17:48

We used to tell people that the DWP would inform them of the decision within 6 to 8 weeks.

EveryDayIsASchoolDay · 17/11/2016 18:04

Thanks again BannedJust in time for Christmas then. Yeyay.

JoffreyBaratheon · 17/11/2016 20:03

Every, in my son's case I was told over the phone because I rang to ask. Some of them won't tell you anything, others will. Again - badly trained and inconsistent. Just keep going til you get one who will tell you. In the end I knew a week or so before the letter came. In the case of an appeal, they tell you there and then. We went out for ten minutes whilst they arsed around (could hear them laughing and joking) then got dragged back in.

Scottie19 · 21/11/2016 12:23

I have secondary progressive multiple sclerosis and an ATOS home visit in 48 hours and I am so stressed. My pain levels are going through the roof. I have never felt so pathetic, useless and terrified. My kids are anxious as I keep crying and i really,really cant afford to lose this benefit. I feel so terribly ashamed that I'm so useless that i need this benefit and even more pathetic is I'm likely to loose after the assessment.(Or at least I believe from what I have read that the assessment is designed to fails you.) Help anyone.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 21/11/2016 12:59

Hi Scottie, OP here. I'm back from my ban 😬. You've got a great chance of getting a PIP award. Let the DA see you at your very worst, it'll give them a true picture of your illness. They'll be a health professional, and although the system is crap, most of the DAs that I met really wanted to do the best for the claimant.
Like I've said before, provide written evidence too. You can PM if you want. I'm happy to help.

OP posts:
Oblomov16 · 21/11/2016 13:07

Sorry to see the banning OP.
have submitted forms last week. I think I already know that we wont get it though.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 21/11/2016 13:18

You never know!

OP posts:
NoSuchThingAsThePerfectParent · 22/11/2016 17:54

Can I just ask: if a person is too ill on the day of assessment to go to the centre, are they sanctioned?

NoSuchThingAsThePerfectParent · 24/11/2016 22:07

Bump

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 24/11/2016 23:03

I'm sorry, I really don't know the answer to that.

OP posts:
unweavedrainbow · 26/11/2016 10:18

No-you can rearrange an assessment once and so someone should ring up and rearrange. Generally if there is a chance of someone being too ill to attend a f2f there should either be a push for a home assessment (doctor's letter requesting home assessment due to inability to travel to f2f reliably) or there should be a paper based review -ie a decision made on paper evidence alone, although this relies on there being a good standard of paper functional evidence which lots of people don't have (so OT reports, care plans, detailed support letters, photos of aids used/prescribed).

LurkingHusband · 29/11/2016 11:22

OK, so form submitted.

Just had an invitation to a face to face. This is despite both MrsLH saying it would be very difficult for here to manage (toilet needs) and my statement to the same.

Not sure if this is standard operating procedure ? If it is, it makes me wonder what else they have ignored ?

So a home visit was requested - and has been ignored. What avenues are available to get a home visit ? Just ring and ask ?

Godstopper · 29/11/2016 12:51

I am profoundly deaf and in receipt of a lifetime DLA award.

I have just cancelled my ESA claim as I have a fixed-term job (I won't be doing anything that I've said I couldn't do though, and remain entitled to DLA). I'm dreading that cancelling ESA might impact DLA despite there being no official link between the two (DLA will enable me to continue working, I hope).

The criteria for people like me is insane. Can you read? O.K. Great. No communication problems (nevermind my partner comes most all places with me as I'm often stuck). I would advise anyone with a hearing impairment to think beyond communication and think about things like:

  • Cooking a meal - can you, e.g. hear water boiling? Alarms?
  • Safety overnight - how would you wake up in an emergency? Do you need someone there?
  • Safety when outside - Can you hear someone behind you? Traffic approaching?
  • Concomitant mental health issues, e.g. social anxiety (mine was pretty extreme) through not being able to participate in ordinary activities.

We're effectively barred from doing many ordinary things, but the new descriptors imply we are fine providing we can read.

At my ESA assessment (I was placed in the support group) I had the receptionist deliberately trying to speak to me whilst waiting for my appt. to see if I'd notice (my partner did and instructed me to not even try to communicate). The actual assessment only took about ten minutes once it was apparent I couldn't hear the assessor.

But ... once my job ends I may have to go through the whole process again and am unlikely to have the same result (I'm hoping to avoid it all, thinking that one job may lead to another and things will continue to improve ....).

LurkingHusband · 29/11/2016 13:02

Had a chance to read the form fully. Things get more bizarre (?).

Appointment requires leaving house at 7:00 - this is despite the PIP form clearly stating (with evidence) that fatigue and toilet needs mean MrsLH isn't up before 10:00 ...

Hmm
Mybrainishurtingme · 03/12/2016 00:26

iwasateenagepip OP I just want to thank you again for this post - I haven't been back to it for a while but I'm pleased to be able to say you gave my husband and I the confidence to apply for PIP when we previously had no idea he could even apply for it

Received a letter confirming he is being awarded the lower level today (backdated for the period since we submitted all the paperwork)

Flowers thanks again

NoSuchThingAsThePerfectParent · 12/12/2016 12:00

OP I heard on the BBC news last October that they are stopping reassessment of the essay for people with certain medical conditions, such as cancer and MS. I've just been sent a letter asking me to complete the ESA50, but I'm in the support group having one an appeal six years ago and I have MS.

Does this sound right?

I don't understand why they need to reassess me when I won on appeal and I'm in a support group for a condition that deteriorates rather than improves.

NoSuchThingAsThePerfectParent · 12/12/2016 12:01
  • ESA not essay!
Anothernamechanger1 · 12/12/2016 12:05

Hi op sorry to change the subject and sorry if it's been mentioned but do you know how hard it is to get renewals for kids dla? Is that getting harder to get, dla for kids i mean?

Becca19962014 · 12/12/2016 12:22

nosuch what was in BBC news isn't law yet. If you've been on ESA in support group for six years you need to reapply. Six years is the maximum anyone can be in it, and six months is the minimum before being asked to reapply.

When I was first put on ESA I was reapplying every three months for a condition that can only deteriorate. The longest I went without reassessment was a year.

Good luck with the form.

Becca19962014 · 12/12/2016 12:23

The government are currently trying to pass a bill where those in support group will also need to look for work.

lurkinghusband · 19/12/2016 16:34

I hope the OP can advise further ?

As noted previously, despite requesting a home assessment, Capita discovered they can offer us an appointment at 08:10 in the morning at a city centre assessment centre (our DS works nights around the corner, and kindly checked the building out - no one goes in before 8:30 ????)

Anyway, GP has written a letter which has been sent to 4 addresses and emailed to Capita, requesting a home assessment.

Current advice (from Capita !?) is that because they can take ages to get the letter scanned from the DWP, that the first appointment should be cancelled the day before. This then gives at least 7 working days for a new appointment to be sent out.

To (now) complicate things, MrsLH has (finally !) got dates in Jan and Feb for an in-patient hospital procedure (to fit a pump internally).

Those versed in the inevitability of shit are probably already where this is going Hmm ...

If the rescheduled appointment - whether a home assessment or a summons - should fall on a date that MrsLH will be in hospital , then she will be forced to cancel it. At which point, the claim will be rejected.

Presumably the rejection can be appealed with all evidence (such as being in hospital) being reviewed ?

Of course having to return the Motability car will be fun Sad.

My only thoughts currently are to write (signed for, natch) to DWP and Capita explaining the situation. If nothing else, it will be a paper trail for an appeal ? I'm afraid the cynic in me is thinking that if we write to them listing the dates (with appointment letters) to avoid then they will deliberately select those dates. Or is dealing with them making me mentally unstable ?

Thanks in advance to any respondents ....

jaxxyj · 02/02/2017 00:24

Just managed to persuade my charity to fund a worker responding to these issues -very pleased
"welfare advocacy worker"
www.cvsnewcastle.org.uk/jobs