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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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HelenaDove · 02/02/2017 15:02

DH received his DLA to PIP letter this week. We did a 20 min interview with them over the phone. They are sending out the forms. DH is nearly 67. He has arthritis ischemic heart disease and COPD.

There is NO WAY he can travel to an assessment. He gets out of breath all the time. He uses a mobility scooter.

The bloke on the phone told us that there is no gurantee of a home assessment. DH can NOT travel. AT ALL.

Becca19962014 · 02/02/2017 16:16

I'm dreading my letter as I cannot use a telephone, no CAB and my social worker refuses to help. I'm working on the assumption it'll just stop. I've literally got no one who can phone for me. Our assessment centre shuts in a couple of months so it'll be a four hour round trip, home visits are extremely rare here due to being so rural and costing so much.

He maybe ok helena and not be called if enough evidence is provided, or get a home assessment - it's a good idea to make the case for home assessment on the form (assuming they ask about needs for assessment still).

HelenaDove · 02/02/2017 21:10

Its a total MN myth that pensioners arent subject to cuts.

Becca why on earth wont your social worker help.

Becca19962014 · 02/02/2017 21:44

It's not their job. Apparently Hmm

Becca19962014 · 02/02/2017 21:45

Actually if he's over 65 (just saw that) I thought he's meant to be exempt from the move to PIP?

HelenaDove · 02/02/2017 21:48

They are only excempting those born before April 1948. DH was born in 1950.

Becca19962014 · 02/02/2017 21:55

Ah. Gov were saying originally everyone over 65 would be exempt but of course they meant over 65 then, not that everyone over 65 would be.

I really should know better!!

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 03/02/2017 15:30

@Daisiesandgerberas

You sent me a PM about this thread, but I can't seem to reply to you?
I've reported the problem to MN, but I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring you.

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 03/02/2017 16:42

A lot of disability bloggers are still saying that over 65s arent being affected.

Becca19962014 · 03/02/2017 16:51

They probably made the same assumption I did that the law specified over 65s being exempt like children under are until they're 16 and didn't realise that wasn't what was meant.

Still good to know I wasn't the only one Wink

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 03/02/2017 17:00

Iwas - thanks for all your help early on in the thread - DD2 filled in the form (very badly, she was ridiculously brainfoggy when we did it), adn had her assessment yesterday which went possibly quite well? The assessor seemed OK with the variable nature of her condition, and accepted the issues DD2 has with the questions, for eg when she's well, she can walk 20 miles, when she's not well, she can't get out of bed, so she wouldn't even try.

The Benefits and Work website has fantastic resources as well - we read the assessors guide to completing the forms beforehand, and it was really helpful to see how they assess the answers to each question - variable has to apply to more than 50% of the time for eg. I think they have a discount on membership at the moment as well (£15 rather than £20 from memory).

Just now got to wait for 4-8 weeks to see what the results are (I'm already re-answering the form for a re-application just in case).

Daisiesandgerberas · 03/02/2017 17:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LurkingHusband · 03/02/2017 17:30

Since this thread has reappeared ...

Wrote and spoke to Capita, and they agreed a home assessment (due in a couple of weeks), and managed to avoid MrsLHs hospital dates.

(MrsLHs baclofen trial went fantastically Smile)

Since we submitted the form, we have 4 new pieces of supporting evidence about MrsLHs condition which I will give to the assessors when they come. I have to admit to fighting an urge to say to them that there will be another 4 new pieces for every month they delay, or if they want to reject MrsLHs claim. Because that's how progressive diseases work.

Best of luck to all here.

HelenaDove · 03/02/2017 17:38

Best of luck to you LH and your DW and all others on here. Thanks

HelenaDove · 03/02/2017 17:40

Becca that social worker owes you a duty of care.

Becca19962014 · 03/02/2017 17:48

Not in my case.

barefoofdoctor · 03/02/2017 18:21

I have my assessment next week. I think what you are doing is fab OP. But I now genuinely feel suicidal and utterly hopeless about it. It literally is pot luck Isn't it? Even though my Dr and Social Worker have stated in writing I am unable to work and this is likely to be the case for the foreseeable if not forever.

HelenaDove · 03/02/2017 20:47

Becca thats shit Sad Angry

Ive been googling around and am seeing lots of posts elsewhere that at 67 DH will be too old to get PIP. Now i dont know how accurate this is but IF that IS the case would they really put us through a load of paperwork and stress knowing he would be too old at 67 (next month) anyway.

Ive seen posts that you have to apply for Attendance Allowance at said age.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 03/02/2017 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HelenaDove · 03/02/2017 21:00

Thankyou for starting the thread PIPassesor. It and you have been helpful Thanks

elsie07 · 03/02/2017 21:05

Apologies as I haven't read the entire thread. I have attended several PIP and ESA assessments in my role as a support worker. They have almost all been for mainly mental health disabilities. As the OP has clearly said, the assessment discriminates massively against people with MH and LD. One of the most common features is the assessor turning to the screen and typing notes before the person has finished talking. I've also had assessors argue with someone's view of what constitutes self-harm or anxiety. Lots of condescending, "well we all like having pyjama days don't we?" I have to coach people to be wary of the seemingly banal chat. Do you like reading? Oh yes so do I. What do you read etc? Assessor marks the person as being capable of understanding complex written information.

It's a massive pain in the ass and soooo long but always always appeal. I've been to a few tribunals and never seen anyone lose one. In my experience the tribunal does what the assessment should do, that is give someone the chance to properly explain how their health affects them. But what an enormous waste of resources. No wonder they're thinking of getting rid of them.

Sorry very long.

mygorgeousmilo · 03/02/2017 21:35
Flowers
Becca19962014 · 03/02/2017 21:46

helena simple answer, yes.

I was in ESA support group and was sent a back to work interview appointment which I didn't attend and my claim was sanctioned on the basis I was not doing enough to look for work.

ESA support group are not legally required to do anything in terms of looking for work or attending meetings (other than these assessments). I was still sanctioned and forced to appeal and reapply for everything as that's how it works when dwp stop ESA, even if it's their fault.

iwasa Thankyou for the help you gave on this thread.

Becca19962014 · 03/02/2017 21:50

Attendence allowance is care only. He can still claim pip after 65 but only for a continuous claim e.g. Transfer goes through without appeal.

NewYearNewLife53 · 03/02/2017 22:02

Thank-you OP. I've just started as a SW and this is really useful