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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neglect or just crap parenting?

401 replies

selly24 · 25/10/2016 16:27

Leaving a child age 5 alone in house while running an errand taking 15 mins.
A friend seems to do this a lot. Not witnessed directly but from what parent had said eg ' DC woke up and I was on errand so was upset with me' and from what child refers to or assumes.
Eg when babysitting -' oh, why do I need to come when you go do X? Parent always leaves me here.
Was mortified when first heard bu thought prob a one off, as parent's OH was away, but seems to be a regular thing...am increasingly concerned. Should I be.?

OP posts:
SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 20:39

Neglect and I'd call social services

Natsku · 26/10/2016 20:44

Thanks Trifle

TheWrathFromHighAtopTheThing · 26/10/2016 20:50

sohackedoff you must be shitting me. You think a parent reading in the park while their child plays is neglectful?

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 20:50

But presumably your DH drives?

I get that you might think your DD would know what to do, if something happened. And, in a quiet/calm moment, talking to you about it, she might seem capable.

But she was 4 for Heaven's sake. In the heat of the moment she could so easily panic instead. I've worked as a TA in enough primary schools to have witnessed young children 'flipping out' when something took them by surprise/upset them.

Natsku · 26/10/2016 20:59

Yeah but the nearest town was an hour's drive away. Maybe she would have flipped out, won't ever know now, but the chances of there being a reason to flip out were tiny, would have been more risky for us all to get in the car to go to the shop.

KatharinaRosalie · 26/10/2016 21:01

Natsku it's just a different culture. I'm originally from a country next door to yours and it is expected that 7-year olds come home after school and manage all by themselves until parents finish work, this could be a good few hours. So considering that, it would not be shocking at all to leave an almost 5 year old for 10 minutes, you have to start at some point. I currently live in a country where that 5-year old would be expected to walk to school by themselves.

However in neither would it be considered a good idea to go out while the child is sleeping so they wake up and have no idea what happened to you, like in the OP.

Asuitablemum · 26/10/2016 21:12

I can see how you could justify it to yourself. With tv or tablet on my 5 yo would probably not move a muscle but it's just not something you do is it. If it's coming up regularly in general conversation is also say it is happening genially and probably for longer than 10 mins as easy to slip into 'just one more shop' when you're in the habit of it.

DixieNormas · 26/10/2016 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ARumWithAView · 26/10/2016 21:38

I have every sympathy for parents who make one bad decision, and when something goes wrong (or even if it doesn't) have that oh SHIT, why did I think that was okay? moment.

But leaving a child unattended at four, and having the good fortune that nothing bad happens, should never indicate that it's a reasonable or decent thing to do, bar life-threatening emergency. Or that it's established a precedent: the child can now be trusted to stay home on their own. To be so complacent more than complacent: so insistent that this is fine, that everyone else is really uptight shows a real lack of judgement.

Equally, it's easy to sneer at other people's worst-case-scenarios, but my main concern with an independent, confident four- or five-year-old being left at home wouldn't be external dangers or dramatic events -- it'd be that they'd try to do something 'helpful', probably some innocuous task they've seen you do a thousand times, which might be okay for them to assist with under supervision, but shouldn't be attempted alone. I will make mum some hot chocolate for when she gets in! I will wash these dirty clothes! The cat has been sick, so I'll get a chair and climb up the kitchen units and find that stuff mum sprays on stains!

Little kids are ambitious, creative, dextrous, energetic -- and you can't fully rely on their hazard awareness or judgement, especially if you've always praised them on their resourcefulness and how mature they are.

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 21:49
Tabymoomoo · 27/10/2016 08:21

It is never reasonable to leave a 5 year old alone in the house let alone a 4 year old! 😱
Those who have are either too lazy to take the child with them or just irresponsible or stupid to think their 4/5 year old is at no risk. Saying you're teaching them independence or accusing others who don't leave their children as being helicopter parents is just a pathetic excuse for your poor parenting.

There is nothing so important to leave a child that age alone.

Soubriquet · 27/10/2016 08:53

I have to leave my 1 and 3 year old all the time. I don't go to the shop or anything silly like that. I go into the garden in the out building to put on a wash and tumble dryer

2-4 mins a day.

They are out of eye view and ear view. I would rather leave them in the warm house, then get shoes on, coats on, drag them outside and keep them close enough to watch (the youngest has a thing about stones in his mouth) and stil far away enough to be out of my way.

Believeitornot · 27/10/2016 10:37

ARum has articulated exactly what I was trying to say and failed.

Excellent post.

PersianCatLady · 27/10/2016 11:13

I live in an area where 2-3 year olds are out playing on their own
I think it is disgusting that kids this young are left out alone to play. The other night it was getting dark when I saw a kid playing in the road that must have been three at the most.

PersianCatLady · 27/10/2016 11:17

I was back in 15 minutes
I fail to see what could possibly have been so important that you would leave a 4 year old alone to go out.

Atenco · 27/10/2016 11:29

Gosh, what a sanctimonious thread this has turned out to be.

NavyandWhite · 27/10/2016 13:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlueFolly · 27/10/2016 13:54

^'sanctimonious
adjective derogatory
making a show of being morally superior to other people.'^

In a dictionary definition sort of a way.

Atenco · 27/10/2016 14:41

I feel like a lot of people are getting a kick out out of thinking that other people are worse parents than they are, frankly, without considering that different people face different challenges.

I personally was a single mother without family support and had to take a lot of these types of risks with my dd just to be able to keep a roof over our heads.

A lot of parents are between a rock and a hard place, but a lot the people on here are being incredibly judgemental, instead of being grateful that life has so far permitted them to perfect parents.

MaQueen · 27/10/2016 15:26

I'm far from perfect as a parent, trust me. But I never left my children alone at a young age.

I can see that some parents might be between a rock and a hard place vis a vis childcare. But at least have the guts to acknowledge it is potentially dangerous to leave such a young child alone, and it is the very last thing you wanted to do. Rather than fighting a desperate, rear-guard action by defaming other parents as over anxious and suffocating. Or equally, trying to dress it up as a somehow morally superior mode of parenting a la 'My child is learning independence and resourcefulness.'

And, from the meagre examples on this thread, the parents certainly weren't 'between a rock and a hard place'. Far from it.

They just wanted to nip to the shop without the hassle of taking their child with them...

ARumWithAView · 27/10/2016 16:01

A lot of parents are between a rock and a hard place, but a lot the people on here are being incredibly judgemental, instead of being grateful that life has so far permitted them to perfect parents.

There's a massive difference between a lapse of judgement/desperate situation, and the conscious choice to leave a four-year-old at home while you run an errand (and to continue doing this because, hey, nothing happened so obviously it's safe).

The whole 'oh, so you think you're PERFECT' crap has been done to death. As has the hyperbole about parents being 'between a rock and a hard place' and therefore immune from any sort of responsibility for their choices.

As MaQueen points out, almost every example given on this thread (and others) turns out to involve leaving a kid unsupervised for something that's absolutely not life-and-death: picking up an ingredient missing for dinner, collecting a package. It's a choice, usually dressed up in hyperbole and defensiveness to look like an urgent necessity ('I HAD to go, or we would have STARVED, is THAT what you want?').

Come on here and say 'I just smashed my last vial of insulin, and the pharmacy closes in five minutes, and I don't have a car and I've just moved to the area and don't know a single person who can help' -- that would be a more mixed discussion.

Not something which 99% of the time boils down to: 'fuck, I forgot the eggs, we'll all have to have toast for dinner and everyone will moan at me, so I'm just going to run out and leave my four-year-old at home alone'.

FrenchJunebug · 27/10/2016 16:36

good for you all great parent that never make a mistake, never leave the kids alone, always listen to them, never get angry, never are late or forget to buy something important. Those of us who live in the real world are human and have failings.

MaQueen · 27/10/2016 16:48

Er...junebug no one is saying they don't ever shout at their children. Or that they always listen to them. Where have any of us said that?

What we are saying, is that we wouldn't, and haven't, left our very young children alone while we nipped out to run errands

If you think never leaving your very young child alone, while you pop to the shops is being a perfect parent then your standards are distressingly low.

Never leaving a young child alone isn't bring perfect FFS, it is just being responsible.

ARumWithAView · 27/10/2016 16:54

Okay: I stand corrected. The whole 'oh, so you think you're PERFECT' thing has not been done to death. Plenty of life in that one.

Natsku · 27/10/2016 17:35

Well I'm certainly not perfect but on the grand scale of things leaving a child in a pretty safe environment (compared to outside where she could get into all kinds of trouble but I was encouraged by her social worker to send her out to play) isn't that bad. The chances of something bad happening are miniscule. Compare it to a parent that has to drive their child to school every day - they are putting their child in more danger than I did, but because that can't be classed as neglect its fine. I know my child, she's not the one that thinks to do something to 'help mummy', she's a zombie when the telly is on.

Its a cultural difference too as pointed out by another poster. A lot more is expected if children here, a lot more independence and responsibility. And so we're expected to raise our children towards that goal. It was difficult to adjust to when I first moved here but I take my cues from other parents and ask DD's social worker for advice. I've been told by her that I'm a good mum and I choose to believe her over strangers on the Internet.