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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neglect or just crap parenting?

401 replies

selly24 · 25/10/2016 16:27

Leaving a child age 5 alone in house while running an errand taking 15 mins.
A friend seems to do this a lot. Not witnessed directly but from what parent had said eg ' DC woke up and I was on errand so was upset with me' and from what child refers to or assumes.
Eg when babysitting -' oh, why do I need to come when you go do X? Parent always leaves me here.
Was mortified when first heard bu thought prob a one off, as parent's OH was away, but seems to be a regular thing...am increasingly concerned. Should I be.?

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 10:57

Tigger, the better options in that scenario are A) take him with you even though he is unwell and B) keep DC2 off. It isn't an emergency situation so I can't see why it's justified to leave him alone, especially when he is apparently too sick to leave the house.

I am not saying leaving a 7 year old is definitely neglect (they are a lot more responsible than a 5 year old, in general) but how many times are you likely to do it in a non-emergency situation? How many times are you going to be lucky? If there was a fire, of course it makes a massive difference that you are a mile away!

Your instruction not to answer the phone - how is that making him safer? What would have happened if you had been put out of action by something unexpected?

Natsku · 26/10/2016 11:00

My neighbour last year was a latch key kid at 7 so reckon the average one could handle 15 minutes

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 11:03

But it isn't about how well they 'handle' the situation of being alone. It's about how well they would handle it if the microwave blew up, or if they were injured, or if there was an intruder. 99 times out of 100 nothing will happen so of course your neighbour 'handled' that. Did he or she have to put out any fires?

itsatiggerday · 26/10/2016 11:08

Right. Well I opted for that. Either of those options were possible, I took the view they were less good.

My question was what age? 8? 9? 10? 11?

It's easy to entrench saying "5 is neglect" vs "my child is perfectly happy and I'm relaxed at 5" but that's a snapshot and leading to a futile debate. The sooner we recognise that it's a process to raise a child and talk more constructively about how we make the decisions as they grow, the sooner I think it might be a more fruitful conversation.

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 11:12

How long is a piece of string? It is, like most things, a judgement call. But the grey area is less so. Most people would agree that a child of 10 can be left alone for a short period of time. I think everyone would agree that a child of 15 can be. I doubt anyone would agree that a child of 3 can be. I think most people would agree that a child of 8 shouldn't be. So for me that places the grey area somewhere between 8 and 10. I wouldn't want to be a 'grey area' parent so I would wait until I was completely confident - no younger than 10 for me to be out of the house longer than a minute or so.

itsatiggerday · 26/10/2016 11:19

Yes, exactly a piece of string conversation, that's what I was trying to say.

Thanks for articulating your boundaries and recognising that you're exercising your personal judgement in defining that range. What are the factors you're using to reach that judgement? Or to put it another way, what changes for c.8-10 yo to make leaving them for a short period more reasonable in your mind?

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 11:26

Just my experience of children of those ages: ability to predict consequences, reliably follow instructions, assess risk accurately, understand exceptions to rules and so on.

Clearly it is subjective. With that said, there are professionals whose job it is to cut through that subjectivity and make judgements on reasonableness. I think in most instances what would happen if people knew you (regularly?) left no-one in charge of your 7 year old is you would be given a warning that this was inappropriate.

itsatiggerday · 26/10/2016 11:39

Those are useful factors. I'd add ability to evaluate possible responses to a situation and choose a sensible one and security of the child with the situation.

I just think it's interesting that they are subjective criteria and crucially also they're very individual to the child. To speak in terms of general ages is therefore oversimplifying in my opinion.

I was also reflecting that IME girls often develop these abilities earlier than boys. But actually know one family who would trust the younger DD (7) but not the older (10) who is generally a bit dizzier. Which clarified for me that it's down to a decision on the circumstances and the particular child.

It's helpful to hear some of the information external agencies would use in reporting / following up. It's helpful to be prompted to think what the decision criteria are. I still feel happy with my decision in a particular circumstance (as does DC1, who phoned my mum back and told her all about it rather proudly). But since none of you know him personally, I've realised I'm also OK not to be too worried about the blanket generalisations on age as I don't think that's a particularly crucial criterion per se.

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 11:45

And I get you, but I think SS are far more likely to make blanket generalisations on age. And I don't think they are wrong to do so, given the stakes involved.

Not having ever been faced with this situation, I don't know the SS criteria, but I imagine it would be in line with most views on this thread: 5-6 far too young, 7-8 probably too young, 9-10 depends on the child, 11-12 usually okay.

itsatiggerday · 26/10/2016 11:51

Since those who work in the field seem to have disappeared and it's just the two of us left talking Grin that might be as far as we get. I've found it useful to tease out my thinking though. Thanks.

Gillian1980 · 26/10/2016 12:11

Absolutely not a chance I'd leave dd alone at age 5, regardless of whether I felt she would probably be OK.

I just couldn't live with myself if anything happened to her when I should have been there. I am not completely risk averse but in my view this is a very high risk and not one I'm happy to take.

I'm not a helicopter parent and spend very little time worried or anxious about levels of risk, as has been implied by pp about people who feel this situation is a risk. If my gut feeling tells me that I'm not comfortable with it then I follow that instinct, it's not an agonised decision that weighs me down!

JaxyBear · 26/10/2016 12:12

This is hideous behaviour Angry

FrenchJunebug · 26/10/2016 12:41

i've left my 5 year old a few time on his own for a few minutes BUT I always ask him if he is ok about it. Imaging him waking up and not finding me there is horrible.

Natsku · 26/10/2016 13:03

It is a judgement call and very much depends on the individual child. For me the grey area is between 6 and 8 (I'd agree that most 5 year olds probably shouldn't be left alone even though some will be fine, like mine). Schools where I live don't offer before or after school care after the 2nd grade, so from 8/9 years old children are generally expected to be able to be home by themselves for a couple of hours (school finishes early afternoon, office hours usually finish at 4).

Notso · 26/10/2016 13:14

I let DC1 and DC2 walk to the corner shop alone at about 6 or 7 which seemed much riskier than me going to the shop and leaving them at home.

octoberfarm · 26/10/2016 13:42

I'd report. You can call ChildLine (there's an adult number) and they can investigate. That way you know you've done your bit in protecting the child, it's anonymous and the decision with where to take it/what to do lies with them. If a parent told me they were doing this at work, I'd legally have to report them - too much can happen in that time.

Mumzypopz · 26/10/2016 16:11

I'm always amazed of the decisions some parents make regarding the safety of their children. A neighbour of mine leaves her eleven year old to look after a seven year old for a few hrs at a time whilst she is shopping....seven yr old plays on the trampoline with no safety netting on it. What would the eleven yr old think or do if he fell off....it should not be her responsibility if anything happened to him. I've also seen two year olds playing in the road in nappies with no Parent watching....

Natsku · 26/10/2016 17:56

I've seen 2/3 year olds playing out mostly unsupervised too, wasn't keen on that but the older siblings looked out for the younger ones, as did any adult outside at the time.

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 18:09

2 year olds playing out unsupervised? Where?

Natsku · 26/10/2016 18:38

Finland, in a small low-income community. Well not exactly sure about the age but still in nappies and not really talking when I first saw her playing out - came into my house and did a poo and it stunk, not nice!

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 18:53

No, not nice at all!

Kahuna · 26/10/2016 19:03

This is about a 10 year old child with SN who was thought to have the "abilities" of a NT 8 year old being left alone by his Social Worker parents for a 300 mile round trip - sorry for DM link Story. They both lost their jobs and had to do 100 hours community work on grounds of child neglect even though the child was considered to operate at 8, so what would have happened if the child was "5".........

Natsku · 26/10/2016 19:13

Going 100s of miles away is slightly different from going to the shop down the road...

Atenco · 26/10/2016 19:25

Going 100s of miles away is slightly different from going to the shop down the road

Yeap. I also notice a lot of people think that "popping out to the shop" refers to going to the supermarket, with all that that entails.

Natsku · 26/10/2016 19:30

Yup. I'll give the example of the first time I left DD, she was not quite 5 years old. I was about to make dinner and realised we were missing a vital part (and had nothing else, would have been a hungry night if I hadn't gone), OH was out but due home in 20ish minutes. All the shops were shut except for one which was a tenish minute bike ride away and was shutting in ten minutes. Absolutely no chance DD could have ridden fast enough so, after making sure she was ok with it, giving her a phone to call me, telling her what to do if anything scares her (go to neighbours) I got on my bike and raced there and reached the shop in record time. I was back in 15 minutes, OH was back 10 minutes later so even if something had happened to me, DD wouldn't have been alone for long.