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AIBU?

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Original poster

Neglect or just crap parenting?

401 replies

selly24 · 25/10/2016 16:27

Leaving a child age 5 alone in house while running an errand taking 15 mins.
A friend seems to do this a lot. Not witnessed directly but from what parent had said eg ' DC woke up and I was on errand so was upset with me' and from what child refers to or assumes.
Eg when babysitting -' oh, why do I need to come when you go do X? Parent always leaves me here.
Was mortified when first heard bu thought prob a one off, as parent's OH was away, but seems to be a regular thing...am increasingly concerned. Should I be.?

OP posts:
e1y1 · 26/10/2016 06:56

Neglect - as mentioned, what if something happened to the parent whilst out.

More pressingly, what if something happened to the 5yo? Stranger at the door, a leak occurring or even a fire? The 5yo wouldn't know how to deal with it.

ToastByTheCoast · 26/10/2016 07:52

I think this is neglect. A couple of years ago, I found a 4 year old crying in the street looking for her dad. She was on the pavement of a busy 4 lane road in a city, in her slippers in the rain, and going up to taxi drivers in a layby and asking them to help her. She also stopped a cyclist and another passerby. We all rallied to try and help her but nobody knew her and the shared entry door of the big block of flats she said she had come from had locked behind her.

We had to phone the police. The dad arrived at the same time as the police and immediately berated the little girl for leaving the house to look for him. He said she had been left watching a DVD while he popped out on an errand. She hadn't wanted to go to the shop so he had left her. She had got scared or bored and gone to look for him. Police took him inside for a disussion and said would likely be social services followup. So, it is taken seriously, five year olds can and do change their minds and do unexpected things. By leaving her, the Dad created a situation where she got into a lot more risk. Luckily all passers by and taxi drivers were kind and trying to help (as are 99.99% of people), but she may have encountered one who was not, or attempted to cross the road and been injured. A child of 4/5/6 is just too young to be left alone.

Natsku · 26/10/2016 08:05

More pressingly, what if something happened to the 5yo? Stranger at the door, a leak occurring or even a fire? The 5yo wouldn't know how to deal with it

All children are different of course and some (probably most) 5 year olds wouldn't know how to deal with things occurring but that is something I have regular conversations with my 5 year old about - what to do if something out of the usual occurs like a leak, fire etc. (i.e. get out of the house, go to the neighbours and tell them - where we used to live we knew the neighbours well)

ToastByTheCoast · 26/10/2016 08:32

Just thinking this through a bit further, there is no definite age in law, it all depends on risk and circumstances. But in childcare, there used to be a different staff to child ratio for 8 years and over. Have just googled and can see that is all in flux now. But overall, it does show that children under 8 have been deemed to need much more supervision than 8+. Just as there is advice that children generally don't have the judgement skills to cross the road safely on their own until about 8. This seems to me a good starting point to think about short 5 or 10 mins home alone and start building independence if child and parent happy with it. Much below that and I would think the parent is putting convenience over risk.

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 08:34

press it is perfectly possible for a child to never have been left alone at a very young age and then grow up to become resourceful and independent (like your DD).

It's just that my DD's chances of growing up to be resourceful and independent were considerably increased because I never risked her safety for my own convenience..

RestlessTraveller · 26/10/2016 08:35

Social worker here. I've had experience of this. Neighbour called the police and the children were removed.

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 08:39

Natsku you shouldn't ever need to have a conversation with a 5 year old about 'This is what you do if there is a fire and I am not here'

Because you should always be there FFS.

Presstheresetbutton · 26/10/2016 08:40

Purely on the basis of the child being left for short amounts of time? No other factors or neglect? An otherwise cared and loved child?

Presstheresetbutton · 26/10/2016 08:42

Oh the bloody fire thing

I'd love to see stats on how many fires spontaneously happen when nobody is cooking/smoking/candles lit/tumble drier on. That leaves what? Electrical fires?

Middleoftheroad · 26/10/2016 08:45

Absolutely not. I don't even leave my two ten year olds for 5 mins.
If you were out and sthg happened then that 5 year old is scared and vulnerable.
No errand is worth that.

yorkshapudding · 26/10/2016 08:46

It doesn't matter that a fire is unlikely to happen. In the unlikely event that it did happen the consequences would be devastating. So why would you take the risk just because you can't be bothered to put your child's coat and shoes on and bring them with you?

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 08:47

Press: It also leaves fires started by unsupervised kids 😂

Natsku · 26/10/2016 08:47

MaQueen She would need to know these things eventually, why not learn them on an on-going basis as she grows up? Where I live, children are expected to have more independence at a younger age than in the UK. In two years time DD will be expected to walk (ski in winter) through the forest on her own to get to school - I have to be constantly teaching her and giving her opportunities to learn before that so she will be ready.

Those are also things she needs to know if something happens to me while I am at home - an accident and I'm knocked out for example so she knows to go to the neighbour and get help. Fire and she can't reach me? Get out of the house and go to the neighbour. I've had her practice going up and down the fire escape ladder that leads from her window. I take my job as a parent seriously - to give her the best possible chance in life and that includes teaching her these things, not just hoping that my presence will keep her safe.

Presstheresetbutton · 26/10/2016 09:21

Can't be bothered....it's already been explained over and over that this isn't coming from a position of laziness. You're clearly so set on believing it is there's no changing your minds.

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 09:22

press yes, fire...don't scoff, please.

We rented a holiday cottage. Put our toddlers to bed. Debated whether to sit in garden and drink wine. Decided (thank God) to watch TV instead. Heard loud thump upstairs, DH investigated...raced back down for fire extinguishers and shouting me to grab our DDs. The extractor fan in bathroom had caught fire, and set fire to curtains and towels (the loud thump was the fan dropping out the ceiling).

The smoke alarm failed. Upstairs already filled with thick smoke, had to find our DDs by touch. All 4 of us treated for smoke inhalation.

It. Happened. So. Fast.

If we had decided to sit in the garden, the first we would have known about the fire was when the windows blew out - and our DDs would have already suffocated.

This was the opinion of the attending fire officer and medic.

So scoff all you like. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

itsatiggerday · 26/10/2016 09:26

OK, so 5 is too young but when is OK? I left (generally sensible) DC1, age 7, in bed one morning while I took DC2 to school. I left the phone by the bed, having practised calling my mobile from it with them (knows the number but left that written by the bedside too). Instructions not to answer the door and let the phone go to voicemail. I got a phone call from DC1 while I was on my way back to tell my that my mum had called and she'd left a message on the voicemail. I could have taken DC1 with, but we'd been up a good part of the night while he threw his guts up and he was still running a temperature. I took the decision bed for the 15 mins was better. Am I neglectful?

user1477427207 · 26/10/2016 09:29

" Am I neglectful? "

no tigger u are not, but it would be seen as such were anything to happen.

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 09:36

Also, my godmother was an A&E nurse for 30 years.

She always joked that if she had £1 for every child she treated for burns, scalds, cut lip, concussion, something inserted in an oriface etc, whose parent "had only popped out for 5 minutes" she would have been a millionaire...

Believeitornot · 26/10/2016 09:47

CBA, laziness. Call it what you want, we have a difference of opinion. There was no need for her to come. No need at all

And if she was 3? She'd come along. You took the easy option.

I have a 7 and nearly 5 year old. We have to go to the super market. I could leave them as it's only a short trip - they're playing quietly and it will be quicker if I just go. They'll be making an almighty fuss when I tell them we are going.

Easier to leave them. However I won't as they're far too young.

However they're very independent and have start making their own breakfasts, they help me cook etc around the house. Leaving them at home while I pop out is about making my life easier. Not helping them grow up.

Believeitornot · 26/10/2016 09:51

itsatiggerday it depends on how far the walk was etc. I would have asked DH to help out if it were me. Or bundled dc1 in the car or push chair and taken him with me. Our school is less than five mins away though.

Muddlingthroughtoo · 26/10/2016 09:52

Just take the bloody child with you! It's not hard, children are portable mind!
Stupid idiotic parenting. It's only down the road....tell that to Maddie Mcaan!

Trifleorbust · 26/10/2016 09:54

On a more serious note, Press, I looked this up out of interest: 2014-15 stats from gov.uk: 16% of household fires were caused by faulty appliances and leads. So microwaves, fridges, chargers etc.

MaQueen · 26/10/2016 10:15

I agree...leaving your 5 year old alone while 'you pop out' is nothing to do with teaching them independence, and is everything to do with making your own life easier for the next 20 minutes.

Muddlingthroughtoo · 26/10/2016 10:28

Couldn't agree more. Children are capable of learning to be independent without being left at home at 5!

itsatiggerday · 26/10/2016 10:38

If DH's work allowed him to flex his start time I would have obviously. It's not possible.

My view is that it's obviously a sliding scale. There is no magic birthday when a child suddenly becomes capable of being left alone. I think the decision is about what a child would do if something happened. I left DC1 with a means of calling me for help. I was a mile away max. If the house had caught fire, it might have made no difference. But that's true if they're 12, 16 or adult potentially too. So it was a risk I thought was reasonable rather than an unjustifiable risk or whatever the terminology is.

And the not ever running a risk for my own convenience is just hyperbole. If I did that, I'd never let them learn to drive because it would always be better for me to put my life on hold and be their personal chauffeur until my infirmity outweighed their lack of experience. We have to move along the process of letting them grow up and that means learning to manage risk.

BTW, I wouldn't leave a 5 year old. I just think this debate has descended into a futile stand off.