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AIBU?

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To continue to wonder who is happy with where Brexit is heading

999 replies

Bearbehind · 25/10/2016 15:44

Whilst I'm sure Leavers will undoubtedly think AIBU the last thread filled up so here's another 1000 opportunities to discuss what you think about where Brexit is heading.

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WinchesterWoman · 30/10/2016 10:55

No. About 15 or so questions over two or three posts. It would also be helpful if you stopped suggesting 'getting rid of all the foreigners' as a paraphrase for 'ending uncontrolled migration'.

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 10:59

ww if you are going to be so childish I'm not interested in engaging with you. Can you stop playing games and tell me what I haven't answered.

I think I've answered everything you've asked me. If I haven't then please repost and I'll attempt to answer.

Please don't continue being so goady in order to detract from the fact you're not prepared to answer any of my questions.

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Olympiathequeen · 30/10/2016 11:00

bear. Where is the emergency budget? Wholesale desertion of banking and big business, like Nissan? Fall in shares? Yes, it's early days but the predictions were for Armageddon. Even the financial analysts are saying it's not as bad as predicted so I'm not alone.

Ok the pound has fallen but it was overpriced anyway, and the fall is partly because the dollar is so strong. The fall isn't so great against the euro. A fall in the pound is good for exports so it's swings and roundabouts.

Both Nissan and the Gov say they haven't 'paid' them to stay here. I am sure there have been some concessions but are they any different from what's paid into the EU coffers so Brussels can kindly redistribute it to us?

If we are net contributors then surely that money can now go to support communities here? Along with the support for research etc, (which has been guaranteed) and which is just our own money given back to us.

At least now we will not be propping up countries that lied to get into the EU and expensive non elected government bodies that like to up sticks every year to move to other locations for the sheer fun of it unknown reasons.

surferjet · 30/10/2016 11:04

Bear, WW is not being childish, & I agree, I wish you'd stop all this getting rid of all the foreigners' as a paraphrase for 'ending uncontrolled migration - it's a bit goady isn't it.

WinchesterWoman · 30/10/2016 11:04

18:24, 18:30 and 18:35. I can't copy and paste. I don't care if you don't want to talk to me. You indicated you wanted to, so I asked for an expression of goodwill. If you don't want to offer that, fine.

MagikarpetRide · 30/10/2016 11:07

Supply and demand on housing. I'm sure I'll be accused of purposely misunderstanding.

Supply is finite. It has a maximum limit but we aren't there yet. How far you want that maximum set it questionable but given all the building projects currently and those in the pipeline it's safe to assume we aren't near it at all. So there's grown in the supply chain. Growth is limited by time, workforce availability and investment.

Demand is growing and is fed by birth rates, increased life spans and immigration. We won't boot people out but we will limit immigration by either a figure or needed professionals, presumably whichever is lower. We won't impose a birth limit either I guess and we've removed an ease of emigration. Demand will continue to grow, but at a very marginally smaller rate.

Theoretically supply could at some point outstrip demand. But that's a very very long term theoretical.

Even if you factor in the natural limits of overpopulation in, it's not likely that supply will come near demand any time soon.

Olympiathequeen · 30/10/2016 11:07

As I said we could have a Canadian type agreement which would not take 7 years to agree because all the rules and regulations the eu insisted the Canadians conform to are already in place, so we wouldn't have to agree on those at all. I. Fact it could take just 2 years is they get their skates on Grin

MagikarpetRide · 30/10/2016 11:09

But as uncontrolled immigration doesn't exist...

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:09

olympia those predictions were all based on a50 being invoked on 24th June. That didn't happen so they are out of the window for now and we need to see what happens once it is triggered.

It's not swings and roundabouts re exports benefiting as we import more than we export so the net effect is detrimental to us.

why do you think the 'concessions' are different to what's paid to the EU? Just because we're not giving Nissan cash doesn't mean our 'coffers' are going to be full. It very likely our income from the, will be lowered in order to 'help them remain competitive'. End result being the same.

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WinchesterWoman · 30/10/2016 11:11

It exists. If any element of migration is uncontrolled then migration as a whole is uncontrolled.

I have shown this. Here you are not I agree purposefully misunderstanding. Here, you just don't understand the principles involved.

frumpet · 30/10/2016 11:11

Wrong the Guardian link further up the thread was a fascinating read , thank you Smile

MagikarpetRide · 30/10/2016 11:13

No Winchester you keep asserting it as fact because you claim something that is finite is infinite. You mean it's not subject to controls you prefer. That is not uncontrolled. You can asset all you like but it doesn't make it fact.

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:15

18:24, 18:30 and 18:35. I can't copy and paste. I don't care if you don't want to talk to me. You indicated you wanted to, so I asked for an expression of goodwill. If you don't want to offer that, fine.

ww discussions don't work the way you seem to think they do.

I replied to your previous points at 18.11. You replied saying you don't accept those responses at 18.15 and I asked you why at 18.22.

You can't then insist I answer questions you posted after that before you answer any of mine.

Well obviously you can but I'm not playing that game- if that's what you want to do then lets agree not to bother discussing this further

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WinchesterWoman · 30/10/2016 11:19

Just pointing out that the predictions were based on the vote result uncertainty, not article 50. I can't copy and paste. I've see the transcripts.

WinchesterWoman · 30/10/2016 11:20

I don't care bear. I literally don't give a fuck that you can't answer those questions. An expression of goodwill would have been a way forward. But there it is.

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:24

in Fact it could take just 2 years is they get their skates on

Maybe olympia but you do realise those 2 years will be consecutive to the 2 for a50, not concurrent don't you?

The 2 year duration for a50 is just about our terms of leaving, it's not for formally negiotiaing specific deals.

What do we do in the meantime?

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Olympiathequeen · 30/10/2016 11:25

bear do you think Nissan is not aware that A50 will be invoked in the new year? Do they think it's been stuffed at the back of the cupboard? Would the matter of a few months seriously have affected their decision?

It's swings and roundabouts but prices will rise. Everyone who voted leave knew that. Do you think we are motivated by ignorance and our ability to wear white sheets? It doesn't mean it will always be that way. Financial stability is never a given and the pound has risen and fallen since it was invented.

There was never a commitment by anyone to evoke A50 immediately.

By saying the financial contribution to the EU is the same no matter what the situation is completely ignoring the fact we are net contributors and have been for a very long time. Confessions to big business is at least within our control. What is out of our control is providing taxpayers (including EU citizens taxes) to support communities in countries who shouldn't even be in the EU and an unelected parliament.

My vote was for having control of our finances and laws.

Olympiathequeen · 30/10/2016 11:30

We'll do what other countries do. We'll also spend that time negotiating deals with Australia, America, China and so on. None of which the EU can do with any sense. (Ttip anyone?). We may not be able to sign for 2 years but we can certainly negotiate.

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:31

ww, don't patronise me by saying you offered me an 'expression of goodwill' and don't get all sweary at me just because you're making yourself look a bit silly now.

It's not 'goodwill' to completely change the rules of a discussion. discussions and debates don't work if you continue to insist I answer questions you ask after I ask you things.

I can and will answer your questions, but not until you answer the ones I asked first. And yes I realise how childish that sounds but it's what I've been reduced to in order to make my point.

I said this morning that all Leavers have ever wanted to do is manipulate the discussions to be talking about what they want, not what they can't answer and you've proved that point completely now.

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Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:32

we may not be able to sign for 2 years but we can certainly negotiate.

No we can't.

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WinchesterWoman · 30/10/2016 11:33

Bear.

I
Don't
Care

Olympiathequeen · 30/10/2016 11:35

And just out of interest how do we know what form the negotiations will take? After all no one has done so yet. There are no hard and fast rules about not being able to negotiate a trade deal simultaneously. After all it's not in the interest of the EU to delay as they export more to us than we do to them.

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:36

Olympia, you might want to read this article about how Australia won't be negotiating with the U.K. Until we've left the EU.

The principle applies to all countries.

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Olympiathequeen · 30/10/2016 11:37

We can negotiate with other countries but we can't sign anything.

Or maybe we should just say we can talk negotiate unless you are saying we can't talk to our trading partners?

Bearbehind · 30/10/2016 11:38

No probs ww.

It does rather prove my point though doesn't it Hmm

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