To continue to wonder who is happy with where Brexit is heading

[Bearbehind]

Whilst I'm sure Leavers will undoubtedly think AIBU the last thread filled up so here's another 1000 opportunities to discuss what you think about where Brexit is heading.

Ah sorry Winchester , the chorlte might have been Christmas sherry taste testing related too , I certainly didn't mean it to offend you , I thought our little debate was generally quite lighthearted

Larry this part of your last post actually scares me

' However, I also believe that to compete globally we will have to have globally competitive labour costs or upskill dramatically. Sadly not everyone can upskill, both given their raw cognitive ability and our not fit for purpose education (and parenting) system.'

I have a sneaking suspicion that once out of the EU , the goverment will be able to reduce workers rights and wages under the auspices of being more globally competitive . I know TM said that the current situation with regards to current EU law that is entwined with our own , being wholesale transfered into UK only law , but people have said a lot of things recently that weren't true ! I hope that any changes made will be taken through Parliament , but the current situation doesn't bode well for that either

Thanks frumpet I was very abraded last night and I took it in the wrong part!

I have high hopes for uk skill sets now blairs dumbing down is being strenuously corrected and there appears to be in government a strong understanding of the knowledge economy.

larry
Sadly not everyone can upskill, both given their raw cognitive ability and our not fit for purpose education (and parenting) system.
That rang massive bells for me. I've worked for two companies that recently came under fire for hiring a lot of immigrants. The problem was when interviewing you were faced with largely a choice between

• people who come smartly, did some research, spoke eloquently and displayed a happy to work attitude
• people who came scruffy, stinking of cannabis, poorly spoken and an attitude that what they were interviewing for was below them

Obviously the companies hire from the first pool of people, the second being sadly where a lot of the indigenous youth fit (not exclusively of course). There needs to be an attitudinal shift from a lot of parents that you are better than menial labour always and more towards a job is a job and you'll learn from it.

I've noticed a general disparagement of poor working class British people in the soft left remain camp. It doesn't match with the furious defence of poor British working class people if anyone vaguely Tory hints at poor attitudes among lower income groups. It's like a pick and mix approach to opinions. What suits one argument may not suit another day, another argument.

My opinion is that low income people have been catastrophically lay down by the lefts educational dumbing down and outrageous immigration policies in the first decade of the century. Now perhaps hope is at hand.

ww I think it speaks more about you that it was your assumption that the youths in that second grouping were poor.

Bad attitudes to working amongst the youth I've seen go across the class divides. Along with good attitudes.

I assumed both groups, smart and scruffy, were from the same income group. Obviously: or why would they be applying for similar jobs.

What were the jobs being advertised?

I would give the Palo Cortado a miss

A range of jobs and abilities in both warehousing and office working, some skilled, some unskilled. However the groupings, whilst not exclusive didn't really change until you got to the high skilled roles. We are city edges, so we had a range of applicants from different backgrounds, however some had a decent work ethic on display where others didn't which didn't marry up to background.

Also the change in pattern one you hit applicants in their late 20s is noticeable too. More tend to come to interview smartly and showing a good attitude to working. It's also not exclusive. Bad attitudes exist every as do good.

All you have to do is to oppress the people so much that the hunger confuses them mightily. Then you can sell them anything and they will buy. I feel like crying right now.

I agree entirely.

Valentine this is the link to the LSE survey.

surfer you are quite right, Leavers have been saying the same as ww post this morning for months however, the following points always get raised in response and never get answered:-

• it has been proven immigrants don't depress wage growth to a material extent
• immigrants are not just from the EU
• none of the immigrants currently here will be deported
• we will lose reciprocal rights in the rest of the EU
• immigrants are net contributors

Immigration has been built up into this big perceived issue but how many of you have been directly affected by it?

It's certainly less than those who will be affected by the imminent increase in the cost of living, which will affect all of us and the poorest in the country are the least able to afford it.

The link above is evidence most people only want to control immigration if it comes at no cost or absolutely minimal cost to them.

Voting for the greater good, our children's future etc all sounds very noble but, unless you can address some of the points above, your decision isn't going to achieve the result you wanted.

My opinion is that low income people have been catastrophically lay down by the lefts educational dumbing down and outrageous immigration policies of the first decade of the century

My opinion is that low income people were badly let down by the effects of Thatcherism in the 80s. Many of the communities that voted for Brexit were those whose industries were destroyed in the 80s and replaced by...nothing. Yes, it was 30 years ago but the effects have been long-lasting. A shift to the financial and services industry has been highly beneficial to the south east but not so much to other areas.

The Labour government may have attempted to address the symptoms of poverty through the benefit system but did little to tackle the root causes. And we are all familiar with the effects of the "austerity" government.

As for the dumbing down of education by the left, I have worked in primary education for 15 years. The curriculum under Labour, while lacking in some areas, was hugely more rigorous than that which I was taught under a Conservative government in the 1980s, which seemed to consist largely of making models out of cardboard boxes and teaching yourself maths.

"All you have to do is to oppress the people so much that the hunger confuses them mightily. Then you can sell them anything and they will buy. I feel like crying right now."

I agree entirely"

Is the bit about hunger a quote?

I disagree and this seems a bit like saying that the foolish peasants have been tricked into voting leave. As this thread demonstrates, there are many very intelligent, informed and thoughtful people who voted leave. If your understanding of why people voted leave is that are just foolish starving peasants who have been manipulated, it's always useful to have a look at some statistics.

Ashcroft research - 43% of graduates voted leave, as did 43% of social group AB. Hardly people on the breadline.

Blink I find that deeply patronising. Poor people can't think straight? It reveals the worst kind of patronising, Nanny state knows bbc set attitude. Why don't remainers listen instead of saying they know best all the time?

Poor people can think straight.

Wrongtrouser:thank you for articulating that.

By the way frumpet I also started on the Christmas sherry last night. I think it's best to finish off a bottle and then buy fresh don't you

Gracegrape: I can offer a parent's perspective. Rigour was not evident. Perhaps staff felt good about it: but perhaps they don't know quite how much slack was picked up by parents at home.

Why would being working class mean you are poor ? A lot of people I know who describe themselves proudly as working class , own their own homes , have a couple of decent vehicles on the drive , go on 'naice' holidays etc

Can I just say hello to Rufus and thanks for acknowledging my answer which despite all the badgering, goading and haranging last night has otherwise been ignored.

It's not inevitable they're poor, of course not.

Absolutely Winchester in times of austerity , you don't want any going to waste by it evaporating in the cupboard ( airing or otherwise )

ww there wasn't badgering, haranguing and goading. I asked you a question which you deided not to answer.

You've still not answered the part about how you think the poorest in society will cope with the cost of living rise that's to come.

I'd also like to know how someone can stand with their arms folded but still jab their fingers

Oh there you are. Of course I answered it. I request an equally considered response.

Aren't you just hilair.

Latest earning figures (not reported by remainer bbc), show earnings for the poorest rising faster than any other income group since vote. Still outstripping inflation. Reduced demand for housing means rents will fall.

Winchester, I responded above at 10.44.

You might be concerned about immigration but leaving the EU won't change the points I raised, why do you think it will?

And please tell us why you think the poor are going to be happy you've chosen for them to have a significant cost of living rise in order to slightly reduce immigrants who probably weren't affecting them.

Earnings are not going to increase in line with inflation once the cost of imports has been factored in.

And what about those who don't earn but rely on benefits?

Remainers never have an answer when you raise the simple, irreducible economic law of supply and demand.