To continue to wonder who is happy with where Brexit is heading

[Bearbehind]

Whilst I'm sure Leavers will undoubtedly think AIBU the last thread filled up so here's another 1000 opportunities to discuss what you think about where Brexit is heading.

Quite a few of my friends' parents' (and my Dad) voted leave because they say that when they voted back in the 70's they did not vote for what the EU had become and I totally get that.

op I cannot believe your saying that the whole older generation would have taken into account the many variables they could when making their vote? I am sure some did not - but my DP circle of friends are all highly educated switched on people who are more than capable of weighing up risks and benefits.

I think some posters on this thread need to be looking at that and thinking " what can they see that I am missing> Why would they take a huge gamble like this? What is so bad about the EU?"

To me its obvious in so many ways. But some posters here don't seem able to see the nuances the greys here.

All it has done is make him take the view 'how can you want you be part of that

I agree with him I feel some people are very passive and happy to go along with many ills in life as long as the boat they are in isnt rocked.

This is fine but stepping back and looking at the EU, imagine if this was a health club your part of.
You start to look around and instead of seeing people getting fit in the gym, swimming you notice an extraordinary amount of fast food on sale instead, the canteen is loaded with cakes and sweets and there is even a Macdonalds in there. You notice people are getting fatter and more unfit - instead of more healthy. Your fees are also going up, but you are not seeing improvements in the gym, in fact its getting more shabby and un kept. They are putting your personal safety at risk with poor equipment and increasing poor judgements.
You start to wonder if you want to be member of this place anymore...your struggling to see the benefits but - you cant leave? Other people want to leave and the gym boss is getting nasty?
The gym is now a place where you dont get fit at all, your personal safety is put at risk, they want more money from you, you dont enjoy it anymore and yet when you want to cancel your membership INSTEAD OF MAKING IMPROVEMENT AND CONCESSIONS YOU GET THREATENED.

In the end you do extricate yourself and think THANK GOODNESS I am out of it.

What is so bad about the EU?"

To me its obvious in so many ways. But some posters here don't seem able to see the nuances the greys here.

autumn perhaps we would begin to see these 'obvious' things that are bad about the EU if you explained a few rather than making such genetic statement.

Please could you share 3 things you think are bad about the EU and tell us why we will be better of it

and sorry, I won't bang on anymore after this but is it really likely that people in Scotland, for example, are in general better parents who care more for their children than people in, say, Norfolk? Or the same for any two areas which voted differently?

Or is it just a tad more likely that there is no difference in how good parents they are overall (obviously good and bad and everywhere between in both areas) but that the difference in how they voted overall is due to some combination of social, economic, employment factors and the effect on the area of being in the EU, plus perhaps some more nebulous things like different political values and priorities etc, etc, but not essentially whether they are good or bad people (and in my mind if someone is a bad parent, they are not a good person)?

Quick post. Not happy but not dreading it either. Wasn't happy IN the EU as constantly felt we were being pushed into situations over which we had no control and no vote. Also felt that we were unable to, for example, make changes to our benefits systems to help alleviate certain pressures and our PM was made to look like a precocious Oliver Twist when he asked for some crumbs.

There are many issues within Europe that are concerning. Whether we are in or out there are risks and uncertainties. We shall see. And hope.

And do what we can in the meantime to create a positive welcoming strong country. So employers: hire locally, support dying communities.

Government: create a housing and a benefits system that does not favour those who have lower costs of living elsewhere and no local ties.

Give school places to those who have lived locally before those who have lived in the country three months and rented a room in the catchment area.

Support employers to hire sixteen - eighteen year olds to give them experience rather than twenty year olds from the EU who will work for the same wages and need far less training.

Get our kids to learn languages. Give them the in-work training they need to operate internationally, etc etc.

If we see this as an opportunity and if we work with the areas and people who voted OUT because they felt they had nothing to lose and everything to gain we might make it work.

Not meant to be trite. Am usually a bit of a depressive but we have to go forward with this. Feel free to ignore post as I have to visit elderly mother now so will not be back for a bit. Just wanted to say that though.

Wasn't happy IN the EU as constantly felt we were being pushed into situations over which we had no control and no vote

But have you any examples you can cite. Or was it "just a feeling" ?

Wrong I don't think anyone could really suggest that people who voted leave are bad parents. What I do believe, though, is that there are many,many people who just don't understand the economic benefits that EU membership brings us. They just see that we pay into the EU and don't understand how our economy benefits. Or they think, perhaps from their own experiences, that immigration will affect their child's chance of employment. (This idea has been disproved by many studies, but I guess if you live in an area of high immigration it might appear differently).

However, even pro-Brexiters have agreed that the UK economy will take a hit in the short-term. Whether that will be 5 years, 10 years or more, nobody can say. It is a fact that many parents will have children who will be looking to find jobs and homes during this time and they will be affected by this.

On a more personal level, I am saddened that my kids may not have the same easy opportunity to work and study in Europe that I had. That experience was really beneficial to me. I suppose if that hasn't been part of your life, it isn't something you would miss.

Chikara, so many things you wish for, could have been done by our own Government, but they chose not to, e.g. compulsory Modern Foreign languages in school, deliberately importing trained nurses from elsewhere to save the cost of training our own. That might have been what many people were voting against when they voted in the Referendum, but since the options weren't listed on the ballot paper, it's impossible to tell.

Post Referendum they have made it abundantly clear that we are not a strong welcoming country.

Larry, so that's on person at a Japanese bank vs the industry spokesman who spoke to the papers on Sunday.

As well as this there are others that have come out and confirmed that there are plans of lots of banks to leave .

Plus the Japanese government document outlining heir position on brexit.

I also have anecdote going he other way. But there is room much concrete evidence

Nissan are building here though.

Wow, that is interesting that Nissan are building the new Qashqai here.

It's a positive in terms of job security but I can't help wondering what the price of that will be.

It is interesting. I think it gives us a clue as to what kind of brexit we are going to get.

I wonder what bribe was offered to Nissan, and how quickly the information will be leaked?

Hey may just have had guarantees on the type of brexit coming, which means theyou don't think it will be wto standards.

I suspect the decision from Nissan is well advanced, and Brexit was factored in.

It's the same reason my companies IT budget is accommodating the 22% hike from Microsoft, plus associated CapEx increases. Didn't take a rocket scientist to know that we'd need some cushion in the event of a leave vote.

However, MYB planning is now underway, and the next three years have to be accounted for. Current glimmers are possible reduction in resource which would be a response to a reduction in turnover. Not set in stone yet, but not off the table either.

So, let's wait and see what the next 12 months bring.

In terms of IT, there are a few big beasts, who are supplying large swathes of UK IT - Microsoft and Oracle probably underpin 90% of enterprise data centres. With the explosion in cloud computing Google and Amazon, that's a lot of US dollars we need to buy with a lot less pounds .

I think the Nissan is a noon to any leave voters, but as it's leaking that tariffs are unlikely then it indicates what kind of brexit we will get. Hopefully the softer kind.

I don't understand the banking crisis. Since we were sterling anyway. And all of the major European counteries speak English. Why did the banks just nor go straight to Europe rather than the UK?

Why did the banks just nor go straight to Europe rather than the UK?

The UKs retail financial sector is light years ahead of the EU.

The banks already had London presence following deregulation in the 19 80s.

Oh and historic links wig Singapore, Hong Kong, new York etc.

Chikira , honest question , how did the EU prevent the UK Goverment making changes to the benefit system ? Or more specifically , which changes did the Goverment try to implement that the EU then blocked ?

Perfectly happy with it. Let's give them a chance to get it sorted, I mean, this is government, nothing happens that quickly. You can't just demand that we give up already because it's not down in black and white what the end outcome is going to be. It'll be months of negotiation, lots of red tape, and more time on top once decisions have been made for it all to settle down and the dust to settle. Patience

Sorry Chikara for spelling your name wrong

lots of red tape,

Errm, I thought we wanted less of that - you know, take back control.

Patience is all very well, but what timescale are you talking about? 25 years for example means a whole generation is wasted, and I could easily be dead by then.

So why are people saying the banks are going to leave? I would understand if we were part of the euro but what exactly will change given that we're not?

The banks might not be able to sell services with the EU single market if they lose access to it. They have to have passporting rights to do this and leaving the EU and the single market would deny them this.