To continue to wonder who is happy with where Brexit is heading

[Bearbehind]

Whilst I'm sure Leavers will undoubtedly think AIBU the last thread filled up so here's another 1000 opportunities to discuss what you think about where Brexit is heading.

I'm a leave voter and I don't care where you stick it Bear

People requested that it stay here

Fair enough.

"I'm a leave voter and I don't care where you stick it Bear "

Oooh is that what you say to all the boys?

Not just the boys

It's not a referendum thread. The referendum has happened. It's a 'what the fuck is going to happen to us now' thread, and , as such, is well sited Ina more general area of the site.

Aren't you a leaver too through?

I'd like to hear from anyone who voted Remain who thinks this thread should be moved.

I'd bet those wanting it moved are Leavers or abstainers or possibly a few who didn't really think much about where they put their cross on the ballot paper and think it was all over on 24th June.

I'd actually like to know whats coming next. All I hear are "soft brexit" and "hard brexit" while all we see is no Brexit

I would vote for the party that would negotiate a return to the EU fold as we were.

So you would vote for an EEA agreement, or if we leave you would vote to rejoin?

I mean, when people voted in 1975 to join common market, what did they vote for?
We were already in the Common Market, and the question was couched in slightly more positive terms of should we stay, yes or no. With overwhelming support for staying. Even if we had said no at that point, we would only have been undoing 2 years worth of membership. But then we would have gone back to being the sick man of Europe.

We do not want closer political Union with the EU

Just picking this up from the previous page.

I appreciate this as a reason some leave voters have articulated. I think it's a bit of a red herring though. If anything, I would say the general mood seems to be against this. Any closer political union has to be passed by treaty change, approved by each national government. I don't think there's the appetite for this in many nations, eg Hungary. It would certainly not have been approved by the UK Parliament, given the rise of UKIP etc.

This, along with the "EU army" (all decisions on defence policy also have to be agreed by national governments) seems to be one of the fallacies that inspired some people to vote leave. I would say there is a general lack of understanding over the workings of the EU. When I have lived in other European countries, it seems generally better understood.

Of course none of us has a crystal ball, but the UK has enjoyed a very strong position within the EU, with the benefit of many favourable opt-outs. While the future of the EU may not be certain, it does seem more stable than the cliff-edge we are now peering over.

The appointment of Gove in a central role is doing little to allay my fears over Brexit!

Also Grace, we had exemption from any closer union, binding in international law!

My DH voted In both times. He worked for a major company the first time round and for a public sector body now (one that potentially could have more work during Brexit so not about self-employment interest).
Actually he's probably one of the few working adults who were also working adults last time - a lot of women for example who had just started work last time are already retired.

bear
She might as well have said 'yep, I completely stand by my comments and I do think it will be an absolute disaster but there's a load of people who think they know better so what else can i do except carry out their wishes then say 'I told you so'

I have been saying this on here since ages now: she isn't stupid. She is playing a careful game just as she played before referendum. I have been saying she knows it's a fuck up and of the highest order but she will let it be. This "leak" is really timely.

She is playing a careful game just as she played before referendum.

Could you elaborate a bit more? She certainly has an obsession about immigration, which is nothing to do with playing games.

wrong
I want to reply to you on two points:

1. About children: (wish I could write really openly using detailed example from work experience directly related to Brexit situation. But it will massively put me because unfortunately I have a rather loud social media presence and I am sure mumsnet has people from that circle.) whoever has young children and has voted leave based on the current arguments . you have seen May's so called "leak" today? The response to this leak from her office? it basically says "I have no plan but hey ho! I want votes and the rest is not my headache 'cause I have told you so" so there goes your hope for a plan for your children unless of course it involved having less immigrants around in which case you have May on your side. But she warned the nation today mind you.

1. small and others havebeen absolutely coolheadedly been bringing argument upon argument and reference upon reference and i think it's the first time I have seen her loosing patience and I don't blame her. You have said some truly nasty words to me too. So that makes us even.

Wow I go off to a theme park and come back to find small being lambasted. Blimey.

Loving the discussion on what was voted on in the 1970s vs now. I'm sure the difference in vote was nothing to do with the oft forgotten completely dire situation we were in back then. The irony is that then as well as now people were voting on what they thought would save them, with not a lot of concept of union and taking the rough with the smooth.

peregrina
I will try to elaborate what I have been thinking all along (hope it doesn't look stupid to you): see, Cameron said he would activate the trigger the next day if it's positive for Leave. He didn't and it is obvious he knew what a massive fuck up it will be. When there are only two possiblities of a referendum, leave or remain, I don't think for a minute that the whole machinery of Cameron et al didn't know it could go either way. They did have their suspicions (although I agree Boris Johnson is exceptionally foolish so may be he didn't) anyway, so I think May is a smart woman and she knew the possible scenarios so she was quite silent leading up to the referendum. Once she was elected, she appointed only Brexiteer on Brexit related jobs, all of whom had dubious track record regarding understanding on Brexit's complexity and/or deliberately looked the other way for their own selfish interests (Boris Johnson in this class?). Now as all goes tits up, specially the banks, she has finally let it get "leaked" that she will not be ready to take the major blame on anything ever (rightly so too I guess ) as its "the will of the people". This is a win win for her and her only. I don't think she is stupid enough to keep bleating about immigrants and still manage to give that speech to Goldman Sachs. I think it was a deliberate plan to make sure no one asks harder questions anymore like why fuck are the Osborne targets going in the opposite directions of the promises. It's the hard line Tories who changed the course of polls I think in the last few weeks.
What do you guys think ?

I wish I could have the energy to write coherently but with two young balls of energy around me,it's all I can't do to type and manage to press post.

valentine She didn't get where she is without being the epitome of modern day politics. Especially as her track record when scrutinised is awful. She knows precisely how to play the game. She doesn't want to lose the power she's gained. Look how bad it went for Cameron. Before this he was beginning to look like some kind of political genius, somehow getting other politicians or parties to disintegrate seemingly of their own volition. But by giving into the fear of UKIP he destroyed himself. She's hedging herself on a 'this is what you wanted' platform. Hopefully it won't work because 'this is what you wanted' before got us uber austerity and an ill thought out referendum

To be fair, I was putting Cameron and Osborne in the same category right after Brexit as that of Boris Johnson but I have changed my mind about that now. I think they are more clever than him. Although that means we are massively fucked because Johnson is our FM now, our official face that deals with the world.

Hopefully it won't work because 'this is what you wanted' before got us uber austerity and an ill thought out referendum
Was it really that I'll thought though? Specially considering that in one year Tories have achieved the following:

1. Maaaassive lead on Labour in all polls and increased cofidende in a Tory PM who came after refreshments result
2. UKIP is where Labour was a year ago with all the infighting and punches
3. Osborne is safe and so is Cameron and no one is going to ask what their performance was
4. Tories are still in power and will likely be considering Labour needs a lot of time to recover and considering
5. May has flipped the finger to the masses today to tell them they can't come back and ask her about the fuck up as she is upholding the will of the people. And that the referendum wasn't her idea in the first place and belonged to Cameron and Co and they honourably resigned, didn't they?

It's a win win for Tories. And DH says some people somewhere are making a lot of money (I don't understand much of his discussions because I never studied basic principles of economics and finance but I have rarely seen him wrong on predictions).

1. There is going to be a big wave of austerity/increased prices etc etc and the "will of the people caused the economy to dive" will be given as the reason for that as public has such short memory.

We do need to massively increase social sciences/economics/media studies in our basic education somehow. I wish I could understand these things clearly.

So Valentine, May is basically just looking after No. 1, i.e. herself?

Re the 1975 Referendum, which I was around to vote in. I remember much more grumbling then about the Common Market and the UK had then only recently divested itself of its Empire. However, HW was a crafty old devil more astute politician than Cameron, and didn't ask a question until he was certain of the answer. Hence the vote going his way.

We now travel much more and are much more familiar with continental Europe - well, Spain, Greece, France, and Italy mostly. People then in the 1960s just didn't own properties abroad. As an aside, I remember our first school trip in 1963 when we went to Spain - one girl was allowed to go because 'it was the chance of a lifetime'. I can't imagine anyone thinking that now! Parents then who had been abroad would nearly always have done so as part of their war time service.

I still maintain the referendum was ill thought out, regardless of how well they've ended up out of it. i'm sure that used to be one word at one point but autocorrect is insistent and I've had

We're in such a sad state of affairs politically right now. Even my uber Tory DF is in shock. He's literally just realised that without decent opposition then the leading party can do whatever it wants. What really surprises me is that he's only just now realised this . He used to ask me why I never supported a party, however he won't quite admit to me that I was right when I said blind faith never gets you anywhere!

May is simply being politically expedient, as she was before the ref. She knows that to go against the ref decision would tear the party apart, and that the big reasons for voting out amongst many of the parties support was on immigration. So she is saying that we'll leave, and we'll control immigration.

She's doing it mainly to consolidate the power that she has got, whether its viable is another thing. But make no mistake her current stance is about shoring up her position.