'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

Well, the statement that consensual sex that is regretted later and rape are two different things is true. This boils down to saying that a complainant has made a false complaint. Sadly, this is often people's default position, due to the (in my view inevitable) difficulties with prosecuting and getting convictions for rapists.

What I'm saying is you'd have to have a big grudge to go through all that if it wasn't really rape!

"...at constant risk of sexual violence from boys and men, faces harassment daily, is labelled every gendered slur under the sun however she behaves sexuality." is not my experience of being a woman or my teenage daughter's. I don't think wild exaggerations of societal norms are at all helpful in navigating this issue.

I was raped at 17 by my long term boyfriend. He was very drunk and much bigger than me and just didn't take no for an answer. It didn't even occur to me that that's what had happened until really very recently (I'm now 40). Looking back with adult eyes I was in an abusive relationship. He was controlling and manipulative, he tried to isolate me, raped me and eventually hit me as well. He is the only man I have ever had a negative experience of. I don't live my life in constant fear of attack by men and my daughter (18) has no experience like that with her immediate peer group. I think it extends wider than that and I don't think it's a simple "all women are victims waiting to happen" thing. It's very clear that we need far more education on the issue for our kids.

Isitadoubleentendre I presume you're deliberately misunderstanding my post, I was replying to someone saying that "especially young people" after parties, when a girl's had sex with a boy and a conversation occurs about it, girls routinely decide to make out they've been raped. I said this absolutely does not happen FFS. Unbelievable that even on a site presumably nearly all women that these rape myths persist and girls are attacked and made out to be in the wrong. Horrific.

Manon - she plain and simple regretted it. It was only after some prat had gone "URGHHH! How could you?" that she said she hadn't wanted to. When she told me the truth she described it that she was embarrassed that she'd had sex with someone "everyone else wouldn't touch with a barge pole." (her words). Then she was too embarrassed to admit the truth when word got round that the guy had raped her.

It's very sad tbh.

I think from the days women and girls were out socially and drinking it's been a 'normal' thing for a man to focus in on a girl who has had too much and to pressurise her into sex on the grounds shes not saying no. Men see a tipsy girl and just don't think they are doing the wrong thing as she's not screaming and shouting to stop.

When there are false accusations of rape it's either revenge for being used or dumped or the girl has a boyfriend and wants to distance herself from consensual sex. Rapidly gets out of hand. However these instances are pretty rare and far more rapes go unreported.

"...at constant risk of sexual violence from boys and men, faces harassment daily, is labelled every gendered slur under the sun however she behaves sexuality." is not my experience of being a woman or my teenage daughter's. I don't think wild exaggerations of societal norms are at all helpful in navigating this issue.

I agree with this.

I have to agree, i don't think he would have been prosecuted and i'm glad i didn't report it.

It's just so sad that so many years on and nothing seems to have changed, in fact i would guess that with social media now playing a part girls would be even less likely to report when they read the vile things that are written, by both men and women, about people who have reported rape.

I was lucky in the sense that i confided in friends, but somehow everyone then found out, i only say lucky as i assume many people said unkind things about me but never to my face and i obviously didn't have to read it online because that wasn't a thing back then. But when i read now peoples opinions i think wow, and it makes me doubt myself all over again!

FlyingElbows whilst I'm glad your daughter doesn't experience anything like it, I and many other girls do. Street harassment, rape jokes from boys, sexist language used by boys as default to describe girls, there are so many stories recently of girls being sexually assaulted by men in their school uniforms on their way to and from school just in the last month. I don't think your attacking me is helpful when I'm telling you how I feel and what many girls experience.

We're not at constant risk of sexual violence from boys and men? Look at the rate of sexual assaults in SCHOOLS, look at the cases in the last month alone of girls being sexually assaulted and in one case raped in school uniform completely at random FFS.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks - no it absolutely does not happen. We might say something like "ew I can't believe I did" but claim to have been raped???? I have NEVER heard of this.

Sorry fantome I misunderstood, it was the above which made me thibk you were saying it never happens. I said above that I have also never heard of someone accusing a 'regret sex' partner of rape, but I didn't then do on to say that that means 'it absolutely does not happen'. But apologies if I did misunderstand.

I presume the Twitter "creepshots" accounts with thousands of followers, or accounts posting photos of teenage girls and young women without permission, with thousands of men following and commenting, are wild exaggerations too. God.

I agree that the focus on 'false rape accusations' is disproportionate compared to how often it happens. An article was posted on Facebook from my local newspaper stating that only 1 in 10 rapes in my city make it to court (something along those lines). One of the comments that followed it was along the lines of "maybe only 1 in 10 actually happened". This sort of mentality is both ignorant and dangerous.

When younger me, and my friends often regaled tales about our cringy one night stands, we would all cringe and laugh together and then never speak of it again, never was it turned into a rape scenario.

One friend was nearly raped, she told me about it and was understandably very upset about what had and could have happened to her. That's as far as it went in terms of 'reporting' anything.

I was also nearly raped and have never told anyone about it.

I'd imagine that it's far more likely that if a woman had been raped, or in mine and my friends case 'nearly raped' (for want of a better term), they would to keep it to ourselves, or confide in a select few people but take it no further. Because we know that the chances of it even getting to court are small and a conviction even less.

Anyone who makes out false rape accusations due to regrettable sex are rife are completely ignorant to what a victim has to go through to even get their case to court. I have never been in that situation but have read enough online to know that apart from the rape/assault itself it's quite possibly one of the most unpleasant experiences a person can go through and that it's no wonder so many don't bother to report.

If you did not specifically consent, then there was no consent.

I've never got this saying, I have never ever 'specifically' consented.

I think the 'changed her mind, claimed rape' idea is a leftover from days when 'nice' girls weren't supposed to have sex.

Its really hard for people today to put themselves in the place of women forty or more years ago, when a husband could do what the heck he liked and get away with it, and if a woman had sex with a man she was always at fault, no matter how she was pressured or forced. A single woman known to have had sex would have been subject to pressure from her family to assure them it was rape or they would be shamed by her behaviour - and I'm talking about mainstream culture here, not specific religious groups.

I have NCd for this.

I was pretty promiscuous in my teens and twenties. I slept with a lot of boys/men when I wasn't in a relationship, simply because I was having (safe) fun and enjoyed it. I never got a name for myself, as it was never in my home town, but mainly in London when I lived there and whilst travelling/backpacking around the world.

Occasionally I would have very drunk one night stands, none of which I particularly regret, probably because I wasn't counting anymore, so one more didn't hurt... I would chalk it up to a crap experience sex-wise and just move on. Many a time I thought, "well this is a bit rubbish" MID ACT and either hurried him up or simply got up and left. Sometimes I would wake in a strange bed with a man I'd obviously had sex with and couldn't really remember. Those occasions were with people I knew quite well though.

There are 2 occasions where I absolutely think I WAS raped - consent or lack of actually doesn't come into it. Once when working in a tourist resort in Greece, one of the other workers, whom I quite liked offered to walk me home across a field as I was quite drunk. Halfway across the field he turned me round and started kissing me. I did kiss back as I liked him, but very quickly he had me on my knees, knickers down, doing me from behind whilst pulling my head back by my hair. I never said no, but neither did I say yes. I remember feeling quite confused at this point and for some reason had this moment of clarity when I knew I was being raped but as I still had a month or so to go at the resort I knew I wouldn't report it, as I was EMBARRASSED he had done this to me and didn't want anyone to know or my situation/friendships to be altered.

The other time was in London at a works Xmas party. A man much higher up than me, a married middle-aged boss in a different department, danced with me at the party then took me to a strip club. I was completely pissed, possibly my drink had been spiked with Rohypnol or something as I only have snapshot images of what then happened. I was taken to his office at work after the club and he sat me on his desk and wrapped my legs around him and had sex with me. He was very rough I think and my thighs got very bruised. He caught a cab with me and dropped me home afterwards and I remember crying all the way home and telling my flatmate he had raped me. (He was not someone I had ever fancied). The reason I think I was drug raped is that he phoned me at work the next day to see how I was. When I said, "why did you do that to me"? he denied we had ever been back to his office and that I must've dreamed what happened. He laughed and called me a silly girl. I knew he was lying as I described his office to a friend and said, "Whose office is this" and she confirmed it was his. I actually left the company a few days later as I couldn't handle seeing him ever again.

I've never really thought to report either of these rapes as (a)My sexual history is quite colourful and (b)I was drunk both times and (c)I never said the work "no". I just chastise myself for putting myself in such situations in the first place. But they do bother me, a lot. I think about them all the time. :-(

I really do think the nature of the rapes differs from the crappy one night stands. I have never ever said "you have my consent to have sex with me", neither have I said "no". But I do know the difference between my 2 rapes and the rest of the sex I have had, I KNOW it was rape.

I think the 'changed her mind, claimed rape' idea is a leftover from days when 'nice' girls weren't supposed to have sex.

Yes, I agree with this. It's almost as if women can't enjoy consensual sex (even if its a bit cringey the next day). That women will always 'regret' it the next day, not because the guy was a bit of a wally, or ugly, or just not someone you would go for in the cold light of day, but because enjoying sex is always something for a woman to be ashamed of and regretted.

I've never got this saying, I have never ever 'specifically' consented.

Are you saying you are regularly raped, or are you looking for grey areas to explain away the regular rapes of other women?

The whole "I've never specifically consented" thing seems to be pandering to those men whose immediate response to "consent courses" or any similar initiatives is "what, you want me to get written consent in triplicate or something?" Those men, in my opinion, are the sort who make no distinction mentally between a woman sticking her tongue in their mouth and grabbing their arse to pull them in closer, and one who is lying there motionless while tears run down her cheeks. In their minds, neither has explicitly said "no" therefore neither case is rape. Of course to any sane person, the two situations are poles apart. But it suits rapists to pretend that they're indistinguishable situations.

Enthusiastic and active participation is what I'll be teaching my son to look for - if you haven't got that, you stop and suggest a nice cup of tea instead.

You can tell the triplicate men are rapists, because their only concern is getting away with it, not making sure they never do it.

Clearly a signed release would bo no indication that a rape didn't happen, since consent is ongoing and can be withdrawn at any time.

But it would make it harder for the woman you raped to prove you raped her, if you had her signature in triplicate on a "consent" form.

yeah Mostly the whole 'what, do you want me to get it in writing' faux horror leaves me cold. I mean, why not get it in writing? If the single worst thing that could happen to you is you have to check and double check before you put your penis into another human being, then your life is hardly difficult, is it?

It's all about entitlement, isn't it?

Nocan thank you for sharing your story. FWIW I think your assessment of what would have happened if you'd reported was right, but it makes me so angry that these are the sort of things women have to weigh up. It seems that you're still deeply affected by what happened, have you thought about counselling? Rape Crisis are supposed to be good iirc, and they won't care if it was years ago.

I'd also say to my daughters that it's not a good idea to get more than a bit tipsy with a group of people you don't know well, although of course I did it many times as a young adult and was very lucky to only encounter blokes that understood consent. You do wonder how many times these blokes that are not street rapists have gotten away with it - that situation with ched evans in the hotel room for example, that wasn't the first time he's done that sort of thing I'd lay money on it. NoCan I'm sorry to read that, I hope you've gotten therapy and that your life is in a good place now.

Yes it was years ago - 1993 & 1996 respectively. I am now a 12 years married mother of 3!

I've never needed counselling as I have very good friends who know all about it as does my husband and we have talked in depth about it many times, especially how we can teach our daughters to not get themselves in these kind of situations. I'm not traumatised, its just part of me now.

Thank you for responding though.

This was said on a MN thread only yesterday. I reported and it's still up I just have no words as tongue utterly moronic this statement is

Those men, in my opinion, are the sort who make no distinction mentally between a woman sticking her tongue in their mouth and grabbing their arse to pull them in closer, and one who is lying there motionless while tears run down her cheeks. In their minds, neither has explicitly said "no" therefore neither case is rape.

The tears would still be a form of "no" though. Think the "she didn't say no" thing is used more in situations where there was no outward appearance of a no as well as no actual no.

Is that always rape? Someone could be doing the complete "lie back and think of England" thing yet still be consenting to it. But I agree, better all round to look for enthusiastic participation as it's safer for both her and him.

As for the OP, you do hear very rare cases where someone claimed rape over "regret sex" when it might have looked better for them in the eyes of their families or community say, but I'd image that they are very rare.