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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel cross and frustrated with mum? Money, mortgage, inheritance

322 replies

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 19:51

I've posted about this on mumsnet before, but the situation has changed a bit in the past year.

The back story: dad did equity release on parental home a few years before he died. My mum never fully understood what she was signing her name to - she didn't understand the concept of compound interest, still doesn't.

Five years on from dad's death and mum now (now 81) lives in the family home with my older sister, who raised a 150K interest only mortgage on her salary to pay off the equity release, and is servicing this fairly large mortgage while she lives at home with my mum. If she hadn't done that it is likely the bulk of the value of the house would have been consumed in a fairly short period of time, leaving my mum stuck in a detached house with a massive garden, which she would struggle to maintain on her own, but unable to leave as she wouldn't have enough money available after paying the equity release off to buy another cheaper property in the very expensive area where she is determined to see her days out.

Now here's the problem: dsis has psoriasis which has become very very bad recently, to the point that her hands and feet are almost completely raw, and she is struggling to get through every day in her very strenuous and responsible (and physically active) job. She has to sleep with plastic bags on her hands and feet, comes home every with blood leaking out of the dressings, and has to spend half an hour after work every day debriding and soaking her hands and feet before wrapping them in clingfilm. Sad This results in her barely managing to keep on top of her work and suffering from quite intense anxiety about it as a knock on. I can't see how she can continue in her job and neither can she, but if she leaves how will she service the mortgage? She is 53 and would struggle to get a job that in any other sector which would be feasible for her with her health problems. She has had this problem for years and has tried many different treatments which until recently kept it under control enough to allow her to function. In the last year however it's got really out of control.

Anyway, a family friend died earlier this year and left my mum 120K and my sister 30K, enough money to pay off the mortgage. As soon as my mum phoned me and told me about the inheritance I said 'brilliant, now you can pay the mortgage off and you can both stop worrying about your future in the house' (ie, can you afford to stay or will you have to sell and downsize if you can't pay the mortgage). DB said exactly the same, and so did my mum's best friend.

All fine. Except not, as mum has decided that she wants to use her part of the inheritance to get the (perfectly decent and functional) kitchen remodelled, go on cruises, and generally live it up, while my sister carries on servicing the mortgage.

My brother put it to my mum that my sister is really struggling with work, to which my mum's response was 'she's lucky to live here in such a lovely house, she's made her choices, now she has to deal with the consequences'.

I feel gutted and angry with my mum. My sister has grafted all her life and never complained. She has never had anyone who's 'got her back'. Her ex partner of 19 years was profoundly selfish and insisted on separate homes/finances until she left him. Then her next partner offered her the security of a home together, but turned out to be a violent abuser. He was a gambler and an alcoholic who ran through all the equity my sister had when she sold her flat to move in with him, and she ended up back in a rented property at 43 with nothing in the bank. She has never asked my parents for anything and is the most honest, sincere, principled person I know. I feel distressed that my mum can't take her needs into account, given that my sister is struggling so badly with her psoriasis. My mum's quality of life is so good for someone of her age. She has a very comfortable income, is active, is still driving, has enough of an income to eat out several times a week, go on holiday with her friends, employ a cleaner and a part-time gardener, and put money in the bank every week. She has a better social life than me and she hasn't worked full time since she was in her 20's. I could understand her wanting to live it up on her inheritance if she didn't already have a really good quality of life, hadn't already travelled the world several times over, been on a cruise, lived in beautiful homes etc. She's said that she wants to give some of the money to my db and me, but we've said firmly that we don't want it, that we want her to pay off the mortgage with it so that this stops being a worry for her and my sister.

It's like she can't compute that not paying off the mortgage means that my sister is trapped on a treadmill of full-time work which she is becoming too ill to cope with. If I try to get this point across to her she gets angry with me and closes down. Tells me to stop upsetting her, that she's old and can't deal with people upsetting her.

I feel oddly distressed about how hard-faced my mum is being. She's a loving person, but she's not behaving like a loving mother to my sister in relation to this issue. I can't see how it's going to pan out right now, and I'm worried about it causing a serious rift between us.

OP posts:
RhodaBull · 18/10/2016 14:22

I think most people say they don't like ER or claim not to understand it when faced with indignant children. My friend's parents did ER and their solicitor insisted that their dd was involved as he said he had encountered too many children who were up in arms upon discovering what their parents had done.

Pisssssedofff · 18/10/2016 14:25

HopelesslydevotedtoGu if you've got dementia or the like, do you honestly care though ? Maybe the mother has the right idea, few more good years of cruises then what the heck

MrsLupo · 18/10/2016 14:30

Omg, though, if you've ever had to look around residential homes, the difference between what you get if you're broke, and what you can get if you've some equity to throw at the problem is like comparing two different planets. Unless your elderly relative has specific, unusual needs, and you also have the time, tenacity and smarts to fight for an appropriate placement like a terrier, having no money when your grasp on independence goes tits up is a Very Bad Place to be. OP's mother is very, very lucky to have so many options, some of which are being paid for with her daughter's health.

Pisssssedofff · 18/10/2016 14:36

I've not looked I must admit but tbh I'm leaning towards the not caring argument. By the time I get to that stage they can throw me on the tip, id rather that than see £800,000 disappear on a care home

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 18/10/2016 14:39

Did your mum want your sister to take on the mortgage, or did you all insist?

RhodaBull · 18/10/2016 14:42

I agree, Pissssedoff. Best idea is to book into 5* care home and then downshift into the no star one when you don't care. Only problem is that not everyone gets senile dementia, and then family feel obliged to pick up the tab to keep Granny in the cripplingly-expensive home when her own money has run out...

Was speaking to someone last week whose dm is in a home costing £1,500 a week !!!!!

Nevertheless, my opinion is that if you want the inheritance, you look after the relative. None of us felt equal to looking after a severely demented mil and difficult fil, so therefore we forfeit any inheritance. Does seem tough that people are sitting in exactly the same care home paying nada, though. (Sorry, different thread altogether.)

hippoesque · 18/10/2016 14:43

This thread is moving fast so sorry if this has already been mentioned but can you not force a situation where your mother has to buy your sister back out again? If she's sat on all that money then it could be put to good use for this situation. I know you said she won't do this, that or the other but something needs to give for your sister!

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 18/10/2016 14:47

Pisssssedofff my dh says he's going to take up lots of dangerous sports when he retires, to ensure he has fun and doesn't live to be too old.

RhodaBull · 18/10/2016 14:49

I agree that PassiveAggressiveQueen's question is material - several of us have suggested that the mortgage did not really help the dm. It helped the family to save the house.

ChathamDockyard · 18/10/2016 14:53

I'm not buying the suggestion that the OPs DM wouldn't have been able to afford to eep the house herself. I suspect a foreign office civil service pension from the time the OPs DF was working would be very generous. The OP said that they had spent the £50k from the ER payment and yet the DM still appears to have plenty of spare cash.

This is from the OPs OP
My mum's quality of life is so good for someone of her age. She has a very comfortable income, is active, is still driving, has enough of an income to eat out several times a week, go on holiday with her friends, employ a cleaner and a part-time gardener, and put money in the bank every week.

I get that the sister is helping with bills but it sounds like the DM could easily manage without.

I also get that as the DM gets older and perhaps becomes in need of more help that she might have to reign in some of her spending but even so she doesn't sound short of cash.

Justjoseph · 18/10/2016 14:54

Him not sure why everyone is saying that Ops mum would have been living in a crumbling mess, she has lots of disposable income, her activity list is long and expensive.

Yes your sister helps out but she gets a great house to live in for not that much cash really.

I'm also betting She was expecting the inheritance and looking forward to spending it.

I would ask her to use some of it but children have created this mess. ( to retain inheritance)

ChathamDockyard · 18/10/2016 15:05

The OPs Mums pension will surely be based on a 'widows' index linked final salary pension. It might well be the size of pension that many of us could only dream of 💰💰💰💰💰

WrongTrouser · 18/10/2016 15:11

I think that PeesinaSquad s
is an excellent post.

I am unclear whether this was essentially an inheritance saving exercise or done for altruistic reasons (and we are only getting one side of a very complicated scenario) but I think the problem is that the emotional and financial/practical aspects are hopelessly tangled.

The sad fact is that some people of the generation who have done so well out of rising house prices, generous pensions, free university for their off spring etc have no interest in using their wealth to make the life of their children, and grandchildren particularly, easier. It's heartbreaking, in my view, and for me very hard to understand as I can't imagine being happy spending profligately if my children were struggling financially. But there you go, that seems to be how some people chose to live. I find the reference in Pees post to her DF's politics resonates with me, as I. find the lack of acknowledgement of the political and social factors that mean different generations have very different financial situations, by some people who profess to be politically astute, enfuriating.

If someone has no interest in using their wealth to help their offspring, I think it's best to just accept that.

It does seem that this enmeshing of family members finances when there are such differences of values is a recipe for disaster. Not a great help now I know, but I think the answer is to disentangle the situation somehow, not to carry on further entangle.

Pisssssedofff · 18/10/2016 15:15

This is one of the advantages of having toasters for parents, at least my expectations are zero lol

Pisssssedofff · 18/10/2016 15:46

Tossers, toasters would be more useful 😁

minifingerz · 18/10/2016 16:05

"Yes your sister helps out but she gets a great house to live in for not that much cash really."

I think she pays £600 plus a month plus splits all bills equally. The bills are huge because my mum is in all day with the heating on and the house is of an unusual design, which doesn't incorporate adequate insulation.

DSis is more like a lodger than a co-tenant. The house is clearly my mum's house. Her pictures on the wall, her choice of furniture, her ornaments all 10000 of them on every surface. The only room my sister has to herself is her bedroom which isn't big.

OP posts:
Badders123 · 18/10/2016 16:11

I suggest your sister starts looking out for Herself and uses the money to buy a small flat.

Shiningexample · 18/10/2016 16:17

show your DM only as much consideration as she has shown you
had the children always taken this approach I imagine the mother would not have thrown caution to the wind in quite the same way?
as it is she presumably is aware (consciously or/and unconsciously) that she is able to maneuver them into picking up after her

possibly it is more common in her generation to feel that one is owed unconditional support....that children are perpetually in your debt and must be there to service your needs as you age?

Shiningexample · 18/10/2016 16:20

I. find the lack of acknowledgement of the political and social factors that mean different generations have very different financial situations, by some people who profess to be politically astute, enfuriating
the tendency to attribute any success to good judgement whereas failures are put down to bad luck

RedHelenB · 18/10/2016 16:21

What percentage of the house does your sister actually own?

As I understand it she has taken put a £150 000 interest only mortgage but that her share in the house will be at least worth that by the time the bank want their money?

Best bet is to try to get the best mortgage deal she can while she is in a well paying job and then hopefully she will have some spare money so she can cut down on her hours at work.

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 18/10/2016 16:29

Why did you all have to self fund through uni and why did your sister have to live in a flea ridden bedsit aged 17? It sounds like your parents were well off. I don't know anyone whose parents didn't give some assistance at uni.

Your sister's devotion to your mum staying in that house is unhealthy. Yes she loves her, but we are talking about your mum living in a semi, not in the gutter. It is not healthy to 'work yourself to destruction' to delay that. Sadly it sounds that your sister is very devoted to pleasing your dm no matter the cost to herself, and may not change her mind.

What input did your dm have when your dsis took out the mortgage- did she understand it? Think it a good idea? Was she worried about the ER loan? Did she have any other solutions?

witsender · 18/10/2016 16:41

What would your sister be doing were she not living in the house?

Where would she be living and how would she be paying for it?

Whocansay · 18/10/2016 17:41

Sorry if I've missed this, but are you or your brother close by? Could your sister come and stay with one of you for a couple of weeks to get some r & r?

Your mother may then appreciate exactly what your sister does.

dowhatnow · 18/10/2016 18:37

Ok there is one obvious answer. Your mum does another equity release now, to release more cash. She gives this to your sister to pay off the mortgage. You are then back in the same situation as years before. Dsis has no debt and your DM has the right to stay in her home until her death. Trouble is the inheritance will continue to be eaten up over the years. But it is a solution.

RhodaBull · 18/10/2016 18:45

And if your dm does pay your dsis the money from her inheritance, I don't see how that advantages anybody unless your dm - please excuse my being blunt here - dies quite soon. If the house needs to be sold to pay for care, then your dsis is homeless and a great deal of the house's or even all of its value will be gone.

Also, does your dm have a will? Is she intending to split house in inheritance or does your dsis have a right to live there for life?