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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel cross and frustrated with mum? Money, mortgage, inheritance

322 replies

minifingerz · 17/10/2016 19:51

I've posted about this on mumsnet before, but the situation has changed a bit in the past year.

The back story: dad did equity release on parental home a few years before he died. My mum never fully understood what she was signing her name to - she didn't understand the concept of compound interest, still doesn't.

Five years on from dad's death and mum now (now 81) lives in the family home with my older sister, who raised a 150K interest only mortgage on her salary to pay off the equity release, and is servicing this fairly large mortgage while she lives at home with my mum. If she hadn't done that it is likely the bulk of the value of the house would have been consumed in a fairly short period of time, leaving my mum stuck in a detached house with a massive garden, which she would struggle to maintain on her own, but unable to leave as she wouldn't have enough money available after paying the equity release off to buy another cheaper property in the very expensive area where she is determined to see her days out.

Now here's the problem: dsis has psoriasis which has become very very bad recently, to the point that her hands and feet are almost completely raw, and she is struggling to get through every day in her very strenuous and responsible (and physically active) job. She has to sleep with plastic bags on her hands and feet, comes home every with blood leaking out of the dressings, and has to spend half an hour after work every day debriding and soaking her hands and feet before wrapping them in clingfilm. Sad This results in her barely managing to keep on top of her work and suffering from quite intense anxiety about it as a knock on. I can't see how she can continue in her job and neither can she, but if she leaves how will she service the mortgage? She is 53 and would struggle to get a job that in any other sector which would be feasible for her with her health problems. She has had this problem for years and has tried many different treatments which until recently kept it under control enough to allow her to function. In the last year however it's got really out of control.

Anyway, a family friend died earlier this year and left my mum 120K and my sister 30K, enough money to pay off the mortgage. As soon as my mum phoned me and told me about the inheritance I said 'brilliant, now you can pay the mortgage off and you can both stop worrying about your future in the house' (ie, can you afford to stay or will you have to sell and downsize if you can't pay the mortgage). DB said exactly the same, and so did my mum's best friend.

All fine. Except not, as mum has decided that she wants to use her part of the inheritance to get the (perfectly decent and functional) kitchen remodelled, go on cruises, and generally live it up, while my sister carries on servicing the mortgage.

My brother put it to my mum that my sister is really struggling with work, to which my mum's response was 'she's lucky to live here in such a lovely house, she's made her choices, now she has to deal with the consequences'.

I feel gutted and angry with my mum. My sister has grafted all her life and never complained. She has never had anyone who's 'got her back'. Her ex partner of 19 years was profoundly selfish and insisted on separate homes/finances until she left him. Then her next partner offered her the security of a home together, but turned out to be a violent abuser. He was a gambler and an alcoholic who ran through all the equity my sister had when she sold her flat to move in with him, and she ended up back in a rented property at 43 with nothing in the bank. She has never asked my parents for anything and is the most honest, sincere, principled person I know. I feel distressed that my mum can't take her needs into account, given that my sister is struggling so badly with her psoriasis. My mum's quality of life is so good for someone of her age. She has a very comfortable income, is active, is still driving, has enough of an income to eat out several times a week, go on holiday with her friends, employ a cleaner and a part-time gardener, and put money in the bank every week. She has a better social life than me and she hasn't worked full time since she was in her 20's. I could understand her wanting to live it up on her inheritance if she didn't already have a really good quality of life, hadn't already travelled the world several times over, been on a cruise, lived in beautiful homes etc. She's said that she wants to give some of the money to my db and me, but we've said firmly that we don't want it, that we want her to pay off the mortgage with it so that this stops being a worry for her and my sister.

It's like she can't compute that not paying off the mortgage means that my sister is trapped on a treadmill of full-time work which she is becoming too ill to cope with. If I try to get this point across to her she gets angry with me and closes down. Tells me to stop upsetting her, that she's old and can't deal with people upsetting her.

I feel oddly distressed about how hard-faced my mum is being. She's a loving person, but she's not behaving like a loving mother to my sister in relation to this issue. I can't see how it's going to pan out right now, and I'm worried about it causing a serious rift between us.

OP posts:
Pisssssedofff · 18/10/2016 07:34

saintagur that's a nasty little essay you've written, did it take you all night ?

NightWanderer · 18/10/2016 07:37

But it's heartbreaking to think that their entire 800,000 pound home will go to the ER company for the sake of 50,000 pounds. What utter sharks they are!

MarcelineTheVampire · 18/10/2016 07:49

Saintagur that has to be one of the nastiest and most uncalled for posts on MN and that's saying something.

How awful of you!!!

eddielizzard · 18/10/2016 07:55

i feel so sorry for your sister. if your mum is just going to fritter this inheritance away, then it seems to me the house is lost, so your sister should spend her inheritance on sorting out her health problems and changing her career. i wonder if your mum will change her tune when she realises your sister isn't going to bail her out?

choirmumoftwo · 18/10/2016 07:58

This is a bit of an aside but if your sister sees a dermatologist privately, can she still get drugs on NHS prescription? I only ask because Humira is around £9000 per year if she has to self-fund. We use it in my line of work (NHS) and the patient doesn't pay a penny.

silverduck · 18/10/2016 07:58

The mum clearly has no interest in leaving an inheritance for her kids - it's not on her radar, and that's her choice. I don't see why people don't get this. She doesn't care. I think if you accept this OP it will help you get her.

She was ok with equity release and staying in the house for the rest of her days. The siblings were not so they took this mortgage. They took the mortgage so they could secure an 800k house for themselves. What I see is an older person who has been controlled by others all her life making the most of her financial freedom and kids desperately clawing to retain an inheritance. What gets me is that the sister is working so hard, with blood seeping through bandages (!) with a condition exacerbated by stress so her sister and brother get an inheritance. That's the real crime here, that the siblings aren't helping the sister financially. Bullying the mum to give up her cash seems to be their solution. Actually, if none of them had meddled the mum would have been happy (and leaving them no inheritance).

reallyamazeballs · 18/10/2016 08:06

What an unfair post Staugur. It absolutely comes across in all OPs posts that she is extremely concerned for her sister. As for the mother, having had a tough upbringing doesn't let you off the hook from being a selfish cow in your old age. She's not making any effort to consider her daughter. From the sound of it, she's already living a very good life, partly enabled by her daughter looking after the house and garden and paying for some of her luxuries. Yet she'd rather leave her daughter's health seriously impaired, just so she could have another new kitchen (the first one was what kicked off the original ER scheme).

As for her working her fingers to the bone looking after the children, I wouldn't have thought it was too stressful when they were all at boarding school.

OP I really feel for both you and your sister. I hope she at least realises that you and your db are concerned for her welfare. I could never do this to my children.

Ciutadella · 18/10/2016 08:10

First, what a horrible horrible situation for your dsis - and i second everyone''s suggestion about maybe looking into a private consultaion for her psoriasis.
But. I do also have some sympathy for dm.. Very very nicely, and i know that it will still be annoying, but do you think she is feeling that she is being pressurised about the £120k, and that her dc are trying to make decisions for her about what is her money?

I noticed you said that as soon as dm told you about the £120k you said great, now you can pay off the mortgage. Maybe those were not your exact words, but If that were me, i have to admit i might feel - well, a bit as if it should be for me to decide (unless she had asked for your advice - in which case i take it back!)
though i entirely agree with other pps that i can't imagine not wanting to help my dc as much as possible, i do also have some sympathy with anyone who wants to preserve their decision-making autonomy. However unwise and reckless those decisions may seem to the rest of us to be, she is entitled to make them. Of course your dsis is also entitled to act in her own self interest as well - whatever the impact on your dm's position.
(And i know that dm gave up some of that decision-making autonomy when she agreed to the mortgage plan. )
practically, i would say your dm's seeing an ifa, fee based not commission based if possible, for advice, may be sensible. Good luck - it sounds a very difficult situation.

PlaymobilPirate · 18/10/2016 08:11

Your dm has 2 choices really - choose to do the right thing and use her inheritance to make life easier or see the house decline... could you sell this as a shame thing in front of her friends?
'What would mabel think if the house fell into disrepair because dsis will no longer be making herself ill..'
'What would Joan think if dsis sat bleeding at the table at the next dinner party because she's not able to take the time she needs to recover'

NightWanderer · 18/10/2016 08:12

But the OP explained that it's not just about inheritance. Despite the mum's wishes to stay in the house it may not be possible. If the mums health deteriorates she may need to move to assisted living or a smaller place. If she has no equity she has no chance to do this.

walkerandtexasranger · 18/10/2016 08:22

150 k mortgage at 3 % is about 350 per month. Am I right in saying your DM and DSIS pay half each of this ? If you sister can't afford to pay £150- £200 per month then I struggle to see what other option she has? I understand she is has health problems and I sympathise greatly but she will never be able to live in a large detached property in a nice area for that kind of money.

Hypothetically speaking, if your DM did sell up and down size what would this mean for your sister? She would live there rent / mortgage free? I can see from how your DM's pov that this might not seem fair.

It is a terrible situation for your DSIS. I think the advice of seeing an independent person is bang on.

HardcoreLadyType · 18/10/2016 08:22

Hmm. Let's fast forward 15 years. Your mum dies, your sister has managed to struggle on paying the mortgage, and now retires. You now own the house jointly with your brother and sister.

But your sister has done so much to stay in the house, and to facilitate your mother staying there. She loves the house, and the village. Surely it's unfair of your brother and you to want to now sell the house from under her?

I'm not suggesting that your sister is playing you, but I can just see one set of problems with this house and an elderly relative being taken over by another.

Your mother and sister are both living this impossible dream because they want to. Neither is planning for the future. Your sympathy is all with your sister, but she seems to be just as ostrich-like as your mum.

Your talk is all of making your mother see sense. What about making your sister see sense?

DragonRojo · 18/10/2016 08:25

As your mother is not listening to reason, I think your only option is to tackle your sister's approach to the situation. Your sister needs to think of herself, understand that she's not a martyr and nobody is going to thank her for killing herself trying to help your utterly selfish witch of a mother

Ciutadella · 18/10/2016 08:26

Status is an interesting point, because i think people do sometimes feel their status with friends and in the locality is tied up with their house. And they would rather stay as it becomes dilapidated than move somewhere smaller - and that again is a choice they're entitled to make, for whatever reason.
If that means they're then left with no money for old age care, or have to scrimp on other things, that is also a decision for them. The outcome may well not be good, but it is up to them.
op, many sympathies - it must be awful to see your dsis in this position. I think she also has to look to what is in her interests - would it be worth her seeing an ifa to discuss her options?

Adnerb95 · 18/10/2016 08:27

Anyone who has RTFT(!!!!!!!!!) can see:

DM would not have been able to stay and maintain the house without Sister's taking on the mortgage!
Sister does not "own" anything from the mortgage arrangement - she simply has a secured debt!
DM is not some poor old granny who has worked hard all her life and now deserves to live in the lap of luxury at her daughter's health's expense!

Please stop posting comments on these false premises!!!

Abraiid2 · 18/10/2016 08:47

My husband bought half his parents' large house in a remote part over thirty years ago when he was actually in a very good job and living in Chelsea. It enabled his parents to carry on living in their 1950s bubble. The idea was he would inherit the other half of the house when they died.

It was a foolish plan. As they got older and needed more care, the house was always under threat of being sold for nursing home fees, which would have mean the inheritable half wouldn't have been passed on to us. The other siblings were put out, too. And our 'investment' in this crumbling Scottish property has meant that we have lived in a small house in the south all the years we were bringing up two children. Their rooms are so small we can't buy normal-sized wardrobes for them. We can't get beds up the staircase so each time we replace one, it is a nightmare.

If my husband had bought a flat in Chelsea, or even Battersea or Clapham before he married me in when he was earning decent money he and we would have done far better financially and my in-laws would have had to have faced real life a bit earlier on instead of living out some kind of gentry dream in a crumbling house they couldn't afford to maintain.

Empathizes, minifingerz. I have learned from this experience and hope that we will be more realistic with our own children as we age and not tie up their money and emotional effort in bricks and mortar. My in-laws were generally nice people and I loved them but their children paid for having them live in an unsuitable house that was so far away from everyone else in the family.

midnightlurker · 18/10/2016 08:48

If your sister were to stop work, where would she get the money she needs to live? Would she end up on benefits and need to be made homeless to get a council flat? She needs to sort out her health now - that job is no good for her, but she does need to work in some way. What about HER future? When she retires, and your DM has spent the rest of the house's worth on her care, where will your sister live? Also, how on earth is she earning so little if she has a degree?

It is possible to change career in your late 40s. My dad did, my DH is doing so. Is she good at driving? 7.5T work is easy to get, and for £1000 you can do a course and test for Class 2 (rigid HGV). £100 per day as agency work they are advertising near us.

Molecule · 18/10/2016 09:36

Rather than pay the whole mortgage off with both their inheritances couldn't your mother just take on board the payments, say for a year whilst your dsis tries to get her health back, and perhaps looks at the options for retraining? She'd then retain most of the money to spend as she likes and help your dsis at the same time.

It is a difficult situation though, and will, I imagine get even more complicated as time goes on.

minifingerz · 18/10/2016 09:43

"Also, how on earth is she earning so little if she has a degree?"

I didn't say she earns very little. She earns over 30K. But in the SE that won't buy you a home if you're a single person.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 18/10/2016 09:54

"150 k mortgage at 3 % is about 350 per month. Am I right in saying your DM and DSIS pay half each of this ? If you sister can't afford to pay £150- £200 per month then I struggle to see what other option she has?"

No - my sister has been paying all of it and half the bills, and the mortgage is definitely more than 350 a month. I really don't know why but it's nearer £600.

My sister is not playing us, and she is determined to care for my mum and not leave her living alone.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 18/10/2016 09:57

"do you think she is feeling that she is being pressurised about the £120k, and that her dc are trying to make decisions for her about what is her money?"

Yes I think she is.

Though I have never raised the subject with her, but I have told her my opinion when it was raised by her. My brother is the same.

OP posts:
TataEs · 18/10/2016 09:59

could your mum pay off say £50k, and your sis £10k to reduce the debt to 90k and subsequently reduce the payments to a more manageable point? but still have 'walking around money' our interest only mortgage is for £200k and is £250pm. so maybe dsis could see a broker for a better rate?

ultimately if your mum wants to live it up the best plan is to downsize and release her capital to have as many cruises as she wants. after all, something will have to happen when the interest only mortgage is up, presumably the exit vehicle is the sale of the property?

interestingly, you refer to the house as your inheritance (which it is not, it's your mothers house, she's alive and kicking and perfectly at liberty to sell up and spend it) but surely if property is so expensive in the area, when your mother passes, you are not going to kick your sister out of her home? u say she shouldn't be working so obviously she couldn't buy her own place at that point.... the whole situation sounds like it's destined for trouble.

minifingerz · 18/10/2016 09:59

Abraid our obsession with our homes and our concern about social status is really problematic in our current economy.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 18/10/2016 10:01

"interestingly, you refer to the house as your inheritance (which it is not, it's your mothers house, she's alive and kicking and perfectly at liberty to sell up and spend it)"

I really don't need reminding that the house is my mother's to do with as she sees fit.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 18/10/2016 10:03

My sister will work. She always has. She's a grafter. She just can't carry on in the work she is doing at present and has done for the last 20 years.

OP posts: