To wonder how the fuck we explain this to our daughters?

[OvariesBeforeBrovaries]

My DD is two, so oblivious - for now - to this. But how do we explain to girls that their rights, their body and their feelings just don't matter as much to many, many people?

How do we explain that a presidential candidate uses terms like "grab her by the pussy" and boasts about non-consensual sexual encounters, and yet he's still beloved by people across the world?

How do we explain that if she is raped, her rapist's swimming career and education is more important than her dignity, mental health and right to her body?

How do you tell her that if she reports rape - or even reports theft of a handbag, but there's evidence that she has been raped - she could be dragged through the mud, vilified, illegally named, called every name under the sun, put through hell, her rapist will likely never see justice and she'll be branded a "lying slag"?

I'm sorry, I know this is probably one of many similar threads but I don't think I've ever felt quite so angry/despairing. Why are our bodies still just a fucking commodity for men to use and throw away? Why do so many people have such vileness and hatred in their hearts for other people for the crime of having a vagina? Why are people still raising their sons to see women as property, "less than", sub-human. Why do these people still exist?

What a headfuck. I hope something changes in the near future. I have no idea how you even begin explaining that to a girl just starting to realise how the world sees and treats women.

Context is all here. Trump's comments are in a world where almost all sexual violence is perpetrated by men against women (not all of it, but the vast majority) so don't really strike the same note as comments by women. He also implied that he did those things, I think.
YANBU I worry so much that I do not have the strength and wisdom to teach both of my children (boy and girl) enough to thrive and survive the onslaught of social pressures.

Christ on a bike, this thread. How utterly depressing.

You know what is worse now we know it is going on, before it was totally swept under the carpet or accepted as lads being lads locker room talk and we still have feck all ability to address it.

I told my 10 year old tonight that people should only have sex when they are each 100% sure that the other one wants to. She was totally grossed out but it was on the news and it just seemed the right thing to say...

yanbu

ignore some of the initial replies op...people like that are part of the fucking problem but they are too stupid to see it

YANBU OP

Tell them that some people are 'screwed up' and most men think his behaviour and comments are abhorrent as well. Also in the future you will be able to say, and that is why he was never made President.

I have had that conversation with my teenage son and he is disgusted with this to. That is NOT how boys in a locker room talk and anyone above 25 saying these things would be called a paedophile (these days).

Twatty - I am not saying it is 'ok brilliant he said this' - I do think it's wrong but you have to take into account that he is a total dick head anyway, I am just suprised that stuff he has said in private is relatively tame to what he has said publicly especially regarding his opposition (derogatory remarks on her being female etc so all
Fall in the same category)

Plus as I said in a private conversation people say all sorts of offensive stuff (men and women) and everyone gets a bit carried away.

I agree, OP.

My daughter is 15 and a girl outside her school was abducted and raped a few weeks ago. The culprits haven't yet been caught and the police advice is for all the girls in the area to be alert and travel in groups, and if they can't (and she can't) for parents to accompany them to and from school. She had a moan in the car earlier at how her freedom is still curtailed, then we switched on the radio and it was one story after another of the patriarchy of politics and courts not giving a shit about what men do to women's bodies. She cried and said she's scared.

You are so not being unreasonable.

I did feel physically sick when I saw the news today and I do despair for my daughters future, as well as my sons. I dont want either of them growing up in a world where any of this is ok.

And I dont think thats being melodramatic. Its being sadly realistic.

wasn't the trump thing said in a private conversation to a friend? NO. It was said whne he knew he was being taped. And anyway, why would it be any better if it were a private conversation? Imagine if he'd said "Blacks are so stupid, you can just steal all their money and they let you if you're famous" would that be ok if it were said in private? nevermind the fact that it's clearly not a one off.

I reported my own rape to the police a few weeks ago, on the advice of Mumsnet, and seeing the result of the Ched Evans case made me phone up and cancel the appointment I made to give a statement.

I liked the Lancashire police campaign wito the bignition burley police & rugby players saying things like when a women says no I listen etc

I think that needs to be the focus, not how to teach girls not to be victims or how to teach them to cope with sexism- we teach boys to be responsible for how they treat women and to recognise all people hold equal value.

And with girls we listen, we help them sort through their feelings about the sexism within their world, or help them sort through confusion about media portayal of gender roles. It's what they feel about these things that matters, and we need to support them to cope with those feelings.

There's a really good book about how girls socialisation teaches them to 'loose their voice' in preteen years- lynne makil brown & carol gilligan I think iirc

AG I am so sorry. I totally understand, but please reconsider.

YADNBU

I'm glad I have a son. And I will teach him to be different.

I've explained to my daughter that the world is sexist and racist and she should speak up whenever she sees it. And she does. She's 10.

But I'm getting more nervous as she grows up and starts to become independent as it will become harder to protect her from the world. Luckily has awareness, intelligence and confidence on her side.

What else can we do about it?

Obviously lost my train of thought in that post - what I was trying to get at there was that stuff he has actually said publicly regarding lots of different areas are just as bad of not more frightening than the stuff he has said in a private convo with a mate.

OP I think I have derailed an it at my hatred of him so I apologise I don't think you are BU it's shit being a woman at the moment and i sympathise. If I have a girl I will be in the same position and trying to work out how to explain these things - sorry if I came across as a YABU as I did not mean to!

I couldn't agree with you more. It is so worrying.

She hates Donald Trump with a passion, and without any prompting from me.

I think it's worse than when I was a teen in the 80s.

It's terrifying and I actually think teenage boys are now treating teenage girls even worse than before.

I agree. I have late teen DDs and I am so depressed for them at times. DD1 is resolved to stay single because she says the boys she meets just expect sex straight away - and expect you to act like a porn star into the bargain - and she won't do that. (Im sure there must be boys out there who arent this way, but she isn't meeting them).

She's very depressed about the sexism around her. She was offered a management job before she went to uni with 3 other boys/ men and how the boys were treated and fast tracked so they could get onto the next ladder compared to her was a shock as I always brought her up to believe she could do whatever she wanted in life. It's depressing when we tell our girls through their childhood that they can achieve anything that a boy can and then they get into the real world and find it's actually much harder just because they're girls.

DD2 is 17 and says it's very common around school/ college to hear girls referred to as "bitches" "pussy" "cunts" etc etc. She has a boyfriend who seems to treat her with respect but even then she split up with him for a few months over an argument re his porn usage. And this is a boy from a very straight laced religious family who I know have brought him up to be respectful of women. But the culture around them is just so strong. I think being a parent of a boy whom you are trying to bring up to be respectful of women must be just as difficult a task.

I honestly think in some ways the world was better for me as a teen girl in the 80s. Obviously in some ways we've come on massively, but there's a lot to be fearful and depressed over.

AnyFucker

I don't want to derail the thread, as it's much bigger than me. I will think about it. I have about seven missed calls from them, asking me to change my mind. I was already wavering anyway, but I don't ever want to be in a position where my other sexual partners might be interviewed or my name dragged through the mud.

I am far from the perfect victim. I used to be quite promiscuous, have had kinky sex, was with a few controlling boyfriends and there are photos of me floating around the internet. I would be utterly humiliated.

AG I'm so sorry. Please re-arrange the appointment. There are so many amazing supportive voices on Mumsnet who are here for you and believe you

AG completely understand but so sad for you :(

I have a dd (14) and 2 ds's (12 & 10). DD is a lesbian (not really relevant though) and is a strong advocated of women's rights and equality for everyone. Both of my ds's have been brought up to respect people, including women. They know women are not objects, they are people and they are disgusted by the way girls are treated around the world (especially ds1 as he has mire understanding)

YADNBU OP. You said what all of us were thinking

AG I was raped many times by my boyfriend when I was 19. Never reported him because I thought no one would believe me as he was my boyfriend. I'm in my 40s now. What can we do?