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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how the fuck we explain this to our daughters?

178 replies

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 14/10/2016 19:12

My DD is two, so oblivious - for now - to this. But how do we explain to girls that their rights, their body and their feelings just don't matter as much to many, many people?

How do we explain that a presidential candidate uses terms like "grab her by the pussy" and boasts about non-consensual sexual encounters, and yet he's still beloved by people across the world?

How do we explain that if she is raped, her rapist's swimming career and education is more important than her dignity, mental health and right to her body?

How do you tell her that if she reports rape - or even reports theft of a handbag, but there's evidence that she has been raped - she could be dragged through the mud, vilified, illegally named, called every name under the sun, put through hell, her rapist will likely never see justice and she'll be branded a "lying slag"?

I'm sorry, I know this is probably one of many similar threads but I don't think I've ever felt quite so angry/despairing. Why are our bodies still just a fucking commodity for men to use and throw away? Why do so many people have such vileness and hatred in their hearts for other people for the crime of having a vagina? Why are people still raising their sons to see women as property, "less than", sub-human. Why do these people still exist?

What a headfuck. I hope something changes in the near future. I have no idea how you even begin explaining that to a girl just starting to realise how the world sees and treats women.

OP posts:
Toocold · 14/10/2016 19:31

Op I too am very angry tonight for all of the reasons you state, you aren't alone in your despair, I have a dd and a ds and have been teaching them about the suffragettes and how women are treated, it's appalling and I really feel for so many women tonight.

Original poster
OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 14/10/2016 19:31

Actually isn't it more difficult regarding what to say to our sons?

That's a good point. Apologies, it didn't occur to me. It's so hard to know how to explain any of this to our kids as they grow up in a way that doesn't seem defeatist/like it's an acceptable course of events.

OP posts:
RoseGoldHippie · 14/10/2016 19:32

I agree with some of your post OP but wasn't the trump thing said in a private conversation to a friend? I have seen and heard thousands of women talk like that about blokes too (famous or otherwise Orlando Bloom in his Pirate days)

wasonthelist · 14/10/2016 19:32

YANBU it's been a depressing few weeks and my DD is 8 so I'll be facing this stuff sooner than you. Someone on the Ched Evans thread said it's like going back to the 80s but with smartphones - but it's not even that - somehow it seems worse to feel we haven't moved on.

I have been very disappointed (I suppose I should know better) by how many people seek to excuse words and behaviour that surely no-one would want their daughters to be subjected to (or their sons to perpetrate)?

KayTee87 · 14/10/2016 19:33

It's terrifying and I actually think teenage boys are now treating teenage girls even worse than before. I'm going to sound ancient here but I really don't think a lot of music helps referring to women as 'bitches' and 'hoes' - it turns my stomach.
My friend has a teenage daughter who when she was 15 got a bit drunk at a party and in a bit of bother with a boy. She texted me and I went to pick her up. Said boy was sending horrible text messages to her, when I read them I was so shocked at the names he was calling her. I'm only 29 so vividly remember being a teenager and really don't remember boys I went to school with being that abusive.

JellyBelli · 14/10/2016 19:33

YANBU. We've achieved nothing. These are exactly the concerns people had about their daughters in the 1980's, 30 years ago. A whole generation.

LastBusHome · 14/10/2016 19:33

We teach our sons & daughters that they are as strong / intelligent / powerful / important as any other gender, race or sexuality and that they can do anything they want and you will support them. They can be bus drivers or doctors or presidents or hairdressers and you will support them. But some people in the world mistakenly believe that some genders / races / sexualities are better than others, and they will meet people who try to intimidate them or even hurt them. They must never be afraid to stand up for themselves, or ask for help, if that happens. If everyone learns this message, we will start to stamp out sexism and discrimination.

RoseGoldHippie · 14/10/2016 19:33

Also want to point out I am very anti-Trump but this is by far not the worst thing he has ever said.

wasonthelist · 14/10/2016 19:34

I have seen and heard thousands of women talk like that about blokes too

I've heard lewd talk from women - but did any woman ever brag about grabbing some bloke by the cock?

GrouchyKiwi · 14/10/2016 19:34

YANBU.

We have three daughters. I'm hoping - probably against hope - that the world will have learned and moved on by the time they're old enough to notice.

TheWeeBabySeamus1 · 14/10/2016 19:35

I don't know the answer OP, but it's a valid question, no matter what age your daughter is, as one day she will be a grown woman dealing with all the crap that comes with it.

I think the best thing to do is try and instill confidence in themselves. Tell them they're important, their voices matter and need to be heard, that their bodies are their own and that they are not less than men. Hopefully they'll use that confidence to continue the fight for women's justice and equality - because sadly, despite many years of activism we are no where near it yet.

RoseGoldHippie · 14/10/2016 19:36

Wasonthelist - normally about riding and doing other things to said cock - women can be just as bad as men when talking about that sort of thing! I think people are focussing on the wrong negative stuff that absolute twat candidate had said!

RumbleMum · 14/10/2016 19:36

What we teach our sons is undoubtedly as important or more important, but I don't have that gnawing anxiety about my DSs position in society that I think I would have if I had a DD.

I AM worried - I'm really worried about what happens when they're teenagers and exposed to the really insidious kinds of misogyny and sexism and whether DH and I will be a match for that - but it's different to the fear your child will be a victim of those attitudes, IMO.

LineyReborn · 14/10/2016 19:37

DO and I have just spent three hours talking about our daughters and our sons in light of this verdict.

I do appreciate your worry, OP, and thank you for posting.

Ignore the goaders.

toptoe · 14/10/2016 19:38

It makes me think we are regressing back to the 1980s and before.

HolgerDanske · 14/10/2016 19:38

Wtf; you wish people would 'stop going on about it'? Seriously?!

I don't even know what to say to that.

And actually I must say that I don't believe the answer is to teach your daughters to be the change they want to see. This is not a change that will or should be down to women. It is a change that must come from teaching boys and men to be the change that is needed. And to a lesser degree, by challenging wherever possible the misogynistic notions that exist in ever level of society, whether one has daughters or sons or both, from the time they are young.

But ultimately only men can make this change.

SquedgieBeckenheim · 14/10/2016 19:39

My DD is also 2, and I worry about this stuff. It's the very reason I didn't want a girl when I was pregnant with her!
I can only hope to raise her with self awareness and self confidence to stick up for herself and others around her. If I have a son I will hope to raise them to value and respect women. We can try to change the world one child at a time, and I don't think it's ever to early to start entrenching the values we wish to see in them.
YANBU

HelenaDove · 14/10/2016 19:39

wason The 50s but with smartphones.

Im so glad i chose not to have children.

ILiveForNachos · 14/10/2016 19:39

YANBU at ALL. My daughter is under 6 months and I feel so sad that she's in a world where this stuff still goes on. I am so surprised by the YABU people and have no clue how their small minds think that is an acceptable response.

carmenta · 14/10/2016 19:39

I wish people would stop going on about stuff that happened ten years ago.
Ten years isn't very long ago. And it doesn't seem like he's exactly a repentant changed man. If someone thinks (or thought) sexual assault is ok and they want to become one of the most powerful people in the world, you really think that the fact they held they view EVER becomes irrelevant?

OP, YANBU. I'm depressed about what DD faces as she grows up. What I'm trying to do is help her have strength of purpose and robust self-esteem to allow her to stand firm in the face of society's bullshit.

Twatty · 14/10/2016 19:40

RoseGoldHippie

There is quite a bit of difference.

He was talking about what he DOES. Grabbing, not asking, doing what he pleases with women, he was laughing because he knew they were to scared of his position of power to do anything.

Original poster
OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 14/10/2016 19:40

Thank you for the more recent replies. I've actually been in tears tonight over the injustice of it all, and I don't usually get upset easily. After the first few replies I was wondering if I was going crazy and this is actually an acceptable state of affairs Confused

OP posts:
BonjourMinou · 14/10/2016 19:41

YANBU at all OP. I despair at today's news.

glitterandtinsel · 14/10/2016 19:41

You are expecting that some of these people are normal. Many people who behave like this have personality disorders: sociopaths, psycopaths, narcissists... There isn't any way they can be educated to act as a benefit to society.
My dad is a psycopath and nothing changed him to be a father, husband or grandfather.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 14/10/2016 19:42

We have always discussed double standards and sexism and misogyny with our children. Since my daughters started being interested in boys we have talked about red flags and controlling behaviour. My DH models to all our children how a man should behave.

I dunno, my girls identify as feminists and are confident to call out sexist behaviour; my son seems to have a nice, equal relationship with a girl very much like my daughters.

Yes it is a scary world, we just need to do what we can to guide our kids.