AIBU to smack this intrusive hand away?

[jayisforjessica]

I'm 20 weeks pregnant with twins, and I'm the first to admit it: I'm getting to be a big girl! I do have quite a big round belly.

I have this group of friends who tend to be quite touchy feely, much more so than me personally. They're not bad people, but I've always sort of made my boundaries clear: If I come in for a hug, I want one, but until then, please assume I don't. And this has never been an issue. I used my words, asked for what I needed, and they willingly gave it.

Until now.

Somehow, being pregnant has opened the floodgates of what appears to be their thinly veiled desire to pet me. Every time I hang out with these friends, I have to tell them over and over, please, do not touch my belly. Please, I don't want to be petted and stroked. Please, I do love you, but I need you to keep your hands to yourself. Most of them have been great, but one woman (C, for argument's sake) just wouldn't let up, insisting that she was "only showing some love for [her] pregnant sister" and once again rubbing my belly despite my repeated clear and direct requests that she stopped.

I slapped her hand away.

She was outraged and immediately went into pout and sulk mode. I, on the other hand, think she's being completely unreasonable and childish. I TOLD her multiple times I didn't want to be touched. I TOLD her that I needed her to keep her hands to herself. She CHOSE to ignore those requests. It's my feeling that she deserved what she got (a little slap on the hand).

Our friends are somewhat divided. Some of them agree with me - that C is notorious for not respecting boundaries and they're proud of me for sticking up for myself. Others say "well, C's just like that, there was no call to hit her". Well, to that I say, I was not the one who made the first (clearly unwanted) physical contact. Was I?

For the record, this isn't the first time I've had issues with C. She has similar boundary issues around children "Oh, give Aunty C a hug" (whether the child wants to or not). DS, from the age of about 2-6, was afraid of her - would literally ask me to pick him up rather than face her.

i think you're awesome op!

Too many people like to play the avoidance game, so they minimize and make excuses like 'that's they she is' or 'she meant no harm'.
All they are doing is condoning C's unacceptable behaviour.

I admire you for having the personal strength to publicly set the record straight. It isn't nice and it isn't easy - but at least you will know who your real friends are - and hopefully it will make it easier to have group meetups without C.

If she's actually said those things about your son - i'd go nuclear on her.

She's so far up her own arse that she refuses to see the damage she has done by her behaviour.

Oops didn't realise man's name would come up bold, I used the *'s to show it was insert man's name hahah

Bumsex, sunshine thinks that because the op has repeatedly clarified that it was more of a swipe than a smack.

I'm on the fence. I get what pictish is saying about the op being entirely responsible for their response. I totally agree though that C is totally and utterly unreasonable in her total inability to respect the op's boundaries and actually I have no sympathy for her if she was swiped away and called out on her behaviour.

I would/have slapped at touchy hands. It's fine in law, called self defense...

Reasonable force? Yes... touch me, I touched you back. If the victim strikes an attacker in self defence, he could contend at common law that he was using reasonable force to defend himself. Ignoring the gendered writing... swatting/slapping away a hand that is fondling me would seem reasonable to me and, given a lack of marking, screaming or crying at the time, would likely be seen so in a court of law!

From 1971 "If there has been an attack so that the defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his necessary defensive action. If a jury thought that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought was necessary that would be most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken."

A pregnant woman, having made it clear she did not want to be repeatedly touched, instinctively slaps away the hand of a persistent fondler! The pregnant woman would have felt it necessary to stop the unwanted pestering. Not judged to a nicety but an action taken in a moment of unexpected anguish... tough shit, she had her hand slapped away!

If you don't want to have your hand slapped don't fondle anyone... especially if they have already said stop!

I don't think telling someone to fuck off is more 'common' than slapping them really

A swat on the back of the hand doesn't even bloody hurt. It's more the shock factor that C is playing on.

I don't understand why some people think it's acceptable to rub a pregnant woman's belly when they wouldn't do it to a non-pregnant woman.

I just cannot understand why adults feel they should walk away from a confrontation rather than resolve the issue! A previous work colleague felt my ass was his hands resting place. I admonished him on a number of occasions and eventually slapped his hand away and shouted at him. What would those of you who think the op is wrong feel I should have done? Gone and get myself a new job so as to avoid the colleague?

I think a slap in response to sexual assault is entirely justified (hopefully accompanied by an official work complaint and police report) but over huggy or bump feely people I would just avoid rather than slap.

You didn't hit her hard enough imo! YANBU.

Bumsexatthebingo, be it assault or sexual assault you have the right to stop someone.
No one has the right to touch ME without MY consent. If someone, be they man or woman, will not respect that and KEEPS touching me regardless of REPEATED requests not to. I will physically push them away and I will make no apologies.
When someone keeps disregarding your wishes on being touched it isn't because they 'just can't help themselves'. It is a power play.

I don't think you have the right to stop people with any force you like. If you are being touched up by a man who is physically stronger it might be justified to slap them and get away but a woman in a group of friends when you can move chairs or get up and leave to stop them I don't think you get to give them a slap just cos they're annoying.

Swatting someone's hand away is hardly violence. It's not like you slapped her around the face.

So another woman can go ahead and feel another woman, or man, up as long as they are less physically strong than them??
Again why would you walk away and not confront them?? It reeks of victim blaming to say 'I know the woman shouldn't have kept touching her when she asked her not to but she could have walked away!' Why should the op leave her friendship group because ONE woman cannot understand boundaries?
And the intentions of the perpetrator is no defence!

Bumsex, how do you know that the OP hasn't spent the last 10 years or so doing that? Because the "friend" isn't just over touchy feeling with the OP, but her son as well.
I'm pretty sure that even you, after after 10 years of constantly being on edge, dodging her, asking nicely, moving away might just snap, and lose what little patience you have left when heavily pregnant with twins, and swat away an unwanted hand.

Or are you a saint?

Jay, just popping back to apologise as you took offence to my comment. I'm not sure why you were assuming I thought you shouldn't post here?! I purely thought that in other cultures being more touchy feely is probably the norm and that might explain why your friends were taking so long to grasp the point.

There are loads of non U.K. posters on Mumsnet so it isn't a big deal. In fact my SIL is a South African Mumsnet user. And I was the one who suggested she post here!

WooWooChooChoo
No offense taken! Just was checking I wasn't breaking a rule.

Sorry CBA to read while thread, and somebody's probably said this already, but YANBU as its a natural instinct to protect your baby bump. I was massive with DD2 and all kinds of fuckers were constantly trying to feel me up, it made my skin crawl. I wish I'd slapped more of them.

I give the advice here any time this issue arises in the hope that one day someone does it!

Next time, take a squirty bottle and when someone touches you in a way you don't like, squirt them in the face and say NO loudly and firmly.
You know, like you do with kittens!

You could have simply got up and walked away from her saying, "If you persist in touching me, I can't be near you."
That packs as much of a metaphorical punch as an actual one imo.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I am simply making the observation that the OP wants to take no responsibility for using her hands when there were other things she could have done that would have had the same impact in putting the pushy bloody woman right.

Whilst sympathising with the OP's snap reaction, the above is absolutely the better way.

It might be time for some clarifications.

1. Yes, I said smack in the title, and slap in the first post. They obviously gave some people the wrong impression, and despite my clarification that it was really more of a swat, the presence of smack/slap remains. I could have edited (could I have edited?) but I've seen what happens in forums when people edit after the fact in order to appease detractors. It doesn't end well, with the OP facing claims of backtracking and trying to change their story (therefore their story must be false). Ultimately, I stand before you, just a girl who did what she had to in the heat of the moment, asking you to love me ...? haha.

1. A couple of people have remarked that it's ironic I ask to have my boundaries respected when I don't seem to return the favor. Specifically they cite the fact that if I go in for a hug, I'm cool with being hugged, but until then I don't want any hugs? Well, as I mentioned in the OP, these are very touchy feely people. Their default setting is "yay hugs!" Mine isn't. So I set a boundary from the beginning to say "Your default setting is not mine, please remember that". Nowhere did I say I was forcing myself on anyone. I would never.

1. A further criticism of my assertion that I use my words while being a hypocrite is that I smack my son. In that post I did say I was smacking his hand away from a hot stove. Further clarification here: this happened only while he was pre-verbal/pre-reasoning with him. Once he was able to verbally reason and understand my reasoning, we moved on to time-out and the like. Additionally, he was reaching for a hot stove. Reasoning wouldn't have worked at all, let alone quick enough to stop him from he was doing. I would MUCH rather my son had a quick little fright from a smacked hand, than to sit with him in the emergency room with third degree burns on his hands because I as a parent didn't act quickly enough to keep him safe.

And an update. I woke up this morning to find a message from C (private, of course).

"This has gone on long enough. I'm willing to listen to an apology for hitting me so we can put this ugliness behind us."

So you were right! She is completely self centered and delusional. I didn't directly reply. I copied and pasted it to the group chat along with "C is still refusing to acknowledge that what she did was wrong."

Good on you. I see there is still no apology for fondling you after you repeatedly asked her to stop. Pffft.

I am glad you did not withdraw from the group to shame her. It wouldn't have worked. She has no shame.

She genuinely believes she is entitled to touch you if she wants, irrespective of what you want. Does she have orange hair and skin like you know who in the US?

Well done op, I think you have handled yourself very well!

Christ. What a cow.

What about her apology for constantly ignoring your requests?

Personally, from here on out I would make it clear that unless an apology is forthcoming, (and she respects your boundaries!) then you will no longer be in the same room as her. You do not feel comfortable or safe in her presence, so you won't be.

Slapping a hand away from touching you is not the same as slapping someone with violent intent. It seems so obvious to me that I can only suppose some people on here are deliberately misinterpreting for some strange reason.

Goodness, I would be so cross about this jay. Hang on in there.

I can't stand it when people have boundary issues, DH's entire family have this problem and it drives me batty. YANBU, you made yourself clear, she still overstepped the mark, you shut it down once and for all. Hopefully she's learned a lesson.