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AIBU?

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Original poster

A minor celeb came on to me inappropriately should I report?

382 replies

Iggypoppie · 09/10/2016 14:40

Got a bit of a dilemma.

After watching the jammy Saville doc last week I remembered that earlier this year a current v minor TV presenter several times touched my leg at a charity dinner. It was in a busy room and I was too shocked/confused to ask him to stop! I had only just met him and was three months pregnant so wasn't flirting and I believe his behaviour was sleazy if not predatory.

This person has already been reprimanded for inappropriate behaviour at work in the past so I believe he has form.

My question is, should I tell his employer even though he wasn't attending in a work capacity? Or should I just email him and say that I am on to him?

I don't want a fuss by the way and it was possible that he was just being "friendly" Hmm but it occurred to me that Saville got away so long because of women minimising incidents like this one.

OP posts:
Lweji · 09/10/2016 16:20

If this was a crime like Savile, Max Clifford or Rolf Harris, we'd all be supporting OP.

Are you saying she needed to have had her genitals groped, or raped, to be supported? Really?

PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:22

"Wires have been crossed here"

I cannot believe that anyone would seriously say that!

OP, I get where you're coming from and I do think you should make his employer aware as he has been accused of sexual harassment in the past and got away with. Next time someone speaks up (as he will continue to do it and his behaviour may well escalate it he continues to get away with it), at least they will have more information about it. The more women speak up about it the better.

I was sexually assaulted by a man, in a position of authority. He touched a very intimate area of my body and I said nothing at all. I am normally very assertive but I was confused and just couldn't comprehend what was happening.

I also didn't report it. I found out years later that he had assaulted other women - some more seriously. By the time we all reported it, he got away with it as it was all "historical" and very hard to prove without witnesses. I felt so guilty for not speaking out at the time.

It was not your fault OP & I don't believe for a second it was "mixed signals" or the you were "flirting".

FGS, to the the posters spouting victim blaming nonsense : would you say the same if someone did that to your adult DD, to your mother, to your sister?

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:23

No, we're saying that if it was very obviously a cut and dry case like any of those three or a serious assault, we would all be supporting OP. I don't think a touch on the leg is exactly a prosecutable offence, do you? Do you think it should be? If so, I'm going to have to prosecute the lad who felt my leg in 1999 at the Brunel SU.

ViolettaValery · 09/10/2016 16:25

It is wrong to apply 2016 attitudes to things from the 70s, you have to admit that.

No, it's really not Confused

Nobody thought this stuff was okay in the 70s either, it was just taken as a private matter rather than a legal matter. With forty more years of digging into it, we can now see that making things a private matter can be hard for people who do not, for whatever reason, have the personal resources to strike back - usually because they're in some sort of beholden, less powerful position that makes it complicated for them. And that's a societal issue, not a personal issue. That's why it's wrong to expect everyone to "deal with it" or similar themselves. Your mum was a fortunate person to have the characteristics that enabled her to deal with it, but nobody should HAVE to be subjected to assault in the first place, I'm sure if she's a reasonable person she'd much rather it had never have happened in the first place, there should have been processes in place to protect her from that.

Lweji · 09/10/2016 16:26

If so, I'm going to have to prosecute the lad who felt my leg in 1999 at the Brunel SU.

Maybe you should have called it out, punched him, screamed or reported to the University, then.

And I'd say it should warrant at least a caution, yes.

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:26

As an aside for anyone who thinks I'm victim blaming. I'm not. I'm really not. I was in Stoke Mandeville myself when Savile was around. We were told that, under no circumstances, should we go anywhere with him on our own and if he did anything weird, report it immediately. What Savile did was wrong and he got away with it. It doesn't mean that every single event is on the same level though. Some things are just genuinely misreadings of situtations or a failure to understand signals/messages. It doesn't make them right, but it doesn't make them prosecutable either.

PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:26

Bowie - how do think sex offenders start?

The OP was there, you weren't. She was clearly not interested and yet he got something out of touching her without her consent. That is not normal or acceptable.

They were in a public place.

How do you think that man might behave in a private place ? With a woman he knows will be scared to tell the truth about him?

Squeegle · 09/10/2016 16:27

Well DLT was in the seventies, but this bloke is today. From everything that has been said, he does sound sleazy. Now, is it worth reporting to employers? Well, if the comments here are to go by, you can see why people think again! Problem is that as time has passed and it was relatively inoffensive then it is probably not worth it. But if the same thing were to happen to any of us tonight, then I would say, yes do report. And the fact he is a celebrity is Massively important. People like that are held in high esteem, and others are in awe of them. So that's why they get away with all sorts. Nobody is talking child abuse, we're just saying general misogeny, sexism, coercing ladies into sex they would rather not have. Surely that's bad enough

Lweji · 09/10/2016 16:28

for anyone who thinks I'm victim blaming. I'm not. I'm really not.

And, yet, you are. You really are.

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:28

Lweji

I did, I slapped him and he apologised. He'd misread the situation, despite me feeling like I hadn't given off any signals. Didn't go to the police about it. As an aside, the lad in question is actually a household name now. Does that mean I should go to the police about it?

PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ViolettaValery · 09/10/2016 16:31

Ah, ok, cross-posted Bowie. You have personal connection with the Savile thing, that must be hard, I wonder if that is where you are coming from.

I think the whole direct equivalence thing with Savile was dealt with upthread - yes, clearly paedophilia is a different level of power dynamics to assault by one adult to another. So there is no direct equivalence.

But the OP's point about "letting things go" surely stands. And I wonder if that's why you're reacting like you are. Is there a bit of residual guilt here for you? There shouldn't be, you didn't do anything wrong. You were also in that position of not having power to do the thing we would now (in 2016) say you "should" have done.

Lweji · 09/10/2016 16:32

He'd misread the situation, despite me feeling like I hadn't given off any signals.

Bowie, he said he misread the situation. More likely, he tried his chance, and I'd guess other women didn't react like that.
It's still wrong for men to place hands on legs without any indication of romantic involvement from the other side. Such as being on a date.
You felt it was wrong enough to warrant a slap. Other women may have not felt brave enough to react like that.

You could wonder how he behaves now that he is a household name and women are even more afraid of speaking up.

Kidnapped · 09/10/2016 16:34

Anyway, sorry about all of this OP.

None of this is your fault. I wish you the best whatever you decide to do.

charlybs · 09/10/2016 16:35

This guy has already been done for sexual harassment at work, and OP was pregnant when he touched her leg under the table. Sounds like a total creep to me. I'd say quietly warn who you might be worried about (e.g the younger girls at work you mentioned) and be ready to report if anything else happens.

I can't imagine he had no idea what he was up to - and it's horrible that anyone should be made to feel uncomfortable in that way.

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:35

Lweji

Like I said, if OP feels that strongly about it then she should report it. But me, personally, I wouldn't. Maybe I have messed up opinions or whatever, but it was the comparison to Savile that really got me. What Savile did was disgusting and inhuman. This really doesn't seem like the same. I know OP said it was just the Savile case that made her think about this happening, but to me it sounds like she is equating them being the same in some way, which they're not.

Lweji · 09/10/2016 16:36

Even on the Saville thing, you were told you were responsible for keeping yourself safe (as did other women). Nobody thought of reporting him then.

It's not that different.

And, btw, many predators first approach like in the OP, as a grey area that can be misconstrued as a misunderstanding. Particularly in public.
There was absolutely no reason for grabbing the OP's leg, unless she had given very clear signs. Preferably in words.

My only question is whether he actually grabbed it, or just brushed it, in which case the OP could have mistaken something else for inappropriate touch.

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:37

Cheers for that PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease - nice to know we can have a reasoned debate without insulting people, isn't it? I haven't personally insulted anyone at all.

PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:37

OP, I also understand how being pregnant would have made you feel especially vulnerable and protective of your body. I'm sorry that happened to you and I think it perfectly acceptable for you to make as much of a fuss about it as you want to now (in terms of telling other people,contacting his employer or the man himself if you want to.)

You are not the one in the wrong.

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:41

Lweji

I think with Savile, several people did report it but it was never really followed up on. Savile was massively in league with the Tories and charities, threatening to remove their funding if they said anything. People did report him but by the time I was in Stoke Mandeville (88/89) it was obvious the accusations were going nowhere.

The nurses warned us but for the most part they did look after us. I remember Savile coming round our ward and there was a moment where Savile could have got himself on his own with me, but a nurse came over and started doing things and talking to me. She made her presence felt and he moved on. Looking back, I know what she was doing. She didn't have the power to bring him to justice, but she had the power to stop him when she could.

That's why I found the Savile comparison a bit troubling.

SandyY2K · 09/10/2016 16:41

An email a few months after the event is likely to be met with "who are you? " or "what are you talking about?"

You won't get anything like an acknowledgement of what he did.

PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:41

I'm sorry Bowie - that was uncalled for.

It just makes me a cross that people are so quick to blame women: "Why didn't you say something ?" Etc

I noticed you mentioned that you slapped a man who touched you without consent. Clearly you know it's not only then or you wouldn't have reacted like that.

As well as "fight or flight" there is a "freeze" reaction - which can be a normal reaction to sexual assault.

If you'd been pregnant, you may have been less likely to "slap" the man who touched you without your consent.

PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:42

*not okay then

ChocolateWombat · 09/10/2016 16:46

In this situation, OP should have spoken up to the man, AT THE TIME.

It was unwanted attention, but really it isn't something the Police or his employers need to know about. Whilst men shouldn't be giving unwanted attention to women, unless it is ongoing or of a threatening nature to your physical or emotional self, it's best to speak up at the time and move on. It is important not to make it into a bigger thing than it actually is - yes, there have been incidents of serial paedophile and there are incidents of celebrities attacking women and incidents of rape and incidents of sexual harassment in the workplace ........these things certainly need following up on, but it is also important to recognise the difference between these and a hand on a leg, which whilst unwanted and unpleasant and certainly unacceptable, is very diffent to the things I mention....and therefore needs a different response.

If you had wanted to email that person about what they did to you.....doing it within a couple of days of the incident would have been reasonable. Doing that months later would be daft in my opinion, as would telling the employer.

BowieFan · 09/10/2016 16:49

Oh yes, I completely agree that this wasn't OK even if he did genuinely believe she was coming onto him. It shouldn't have happened at all - I said this at the start. My point was that I don't really see it as something which needs to involve the police. I didn't say he was right to do what he did - he wasn't. But equally, what is reporting him to the police going to do? I doubt the police will do anything over a feel of someone's leg.

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