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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

A minor celeb came on to me inappropriately should I report?

382 replies

Iggypoppie · 09/10/2016 14:40

Got a bit of a dilemma.

After watching the jammy Saville doc last week I remembered that earlier this year a current v minor TV presenter several times touched my leg at a charity dinner. It was in a busy room and I was too shocked/confused to ask him to stop! I had only just met him and was three months pregnant so wasn't flirting and I believe his behaviour was sleazy if not predatory.

This person has already been reprimanded for inappropriate behaviour at work in the past so I believe he has form.

My question is, should I tell his employer even though he wasn't attending in a work capacity? Or should I just email him and say that I am on to him?

I don't want a fuss by the way and it was possible that he was just being "friendly" Hmm but it occurred to me that Saville got away so long because of women minimising incidents like this one.

OP posts:
Lweji · 09/10/2016 16:50

It is important not to make it into a bigger thing than it actually is

Why is it important?

pregnantat50 · 09/10/2016 16:51

thinking about this again, the Op was pregnant at the time he assaulted her, that makes it all the more revolting

Jinglebellsandv0dka · 09/10/2016 16:53

In this situation, OP should have spoken up to the man, AT THE TIME

You really have no idea how hard that is for some people, that's why we are now having a wave of historic abuse claims.

instantly · 09/10/2016 16:55

Abuse?? He touched her on the fucking leg!

OP, I think to be considering reporting someone to their place of work because they once touched your leg a year ago is completely, utterly insane.

For future reference, it's much quicker and more straightforward to say "will you stop touching my leg please".

TotallyOuting · 09/10/2016 16:55

ChocolateWombat

Hpw the fuck do you describe 'a hand on a leg' as 'unwanted and unpleasant and certainly unacceptable' while also describing it as 'men giving unwanted attention to women' in the same post? If it's just 'unwanted attention' women are being given Hmm, how is it unpleasant and 'certainly unacceptable'? You make it sound like a thoughtful present that actually wasn't needed after all. Oh, a vase? I've got far too many vases in my cupboard already, do you have a gift receipt? Hmm Hmm Hmm

TotallyOuting · 09/10/2016 16:56

they once touched your leg a year ago

The OP has already posted specifically to clarify that this was not a year ago. RTFT.

Branleuse · 09/10/2016 16:56

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instantly · 09/10/2016 16:57

It doesn't matter when it was. Someone touched her leg. Big deal.

The fact that she was pregnant does NOT make it worse. What do you think, that the baby is utero is somehow aware of being inappropriately touched??

The fact she was pregnant makes no difference.

nellypledge16 · 09/10/2016 16:57

An email a few months after the event is likely to be met with "who are you? " or "what are you talking about?"

Unfortunately this is exactly the case. I'm sorry this happened to you OP but to have left it so long, and especially as he was drunk at the time, he probably won't have the faintest recollection of who you are.

I'm also confused as to what response you would like from him? Do you want an apology from him? I also don't think a cryptic email from someone he probably won't remember will bother him too much TBH.

instantly · 09/10/2016 16:58

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PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease · 09/10/2016 16:58

chocolatewombat - I'm assuming that you think rape is serious and constitutes more than "unwanted attention"...

Where do you think rapists start? Do you imagine that they start off straightaway by raping someone?

Imagine a ladder if you like, with something like rape near the top - I would say that touching a woman without consent, repeatedly, whilst ignoring her discomfort, is definitely on that ladder.

What was the man gaining from this? It not flirting or normal way of when "coming on" to someone.

It is about having power over another person. Pushing boundaries and doing someone they don't like and continuing to do it anyway. He also picked a woman who looked nervous.

Would you want your DD to do work experience with this man? And to be alone with him?

instantly · 09/10/2016 16:59

Oh give over

nellypledge16 · 09/10/2016 17:03

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ChocolateWombat · 09/10/2016 17:06

I understand that not everyone is confident to speak up at the time against unwanted attention. I understand that predatory behaviour is frightening and that when people have been abused they might take time to process what has happened and speak out....and that must be allowed. NI get those things.

What I don't really understand (and am happy to hear an explanation) is how what happened to the OP is particularly different to being in a club dancing with some people and a man you are dancing with touches your bum or your leg. It might be that you are pleased by this....or not. They are testing the water to see if you are interested or not. They are not going to say 'would it be okay for me to touch your leg' and I think it would be ridiculous to expect that permission is sought before any and every physical touch. When someone tests the water like this, they are looking for a response - you can either encourage them, or move away or tell them to stop and you're not interested. You do however, have to show some kind of response either verbal or non-verbal....and I guess freezing should be pretty discouraging. And as long as they then do stop, I don't see what has happened as a major issue - wouldn't require any emails to person or employer or police ....and wouldn't be similar at all in my mind the Jimmy Saville and I wouldn't call the behaviour predatory and wouldn't be worrying about what had happened months later. If that man dancing, having been told you weren't interested, or after you had moved away, persisted in their actions, I would see it as a different matter......but the question then, is what should be done in that situation (perhaps like the OPs) - would you want to email person, employer or police if you knew them? Genuine question.

My question is, was the OPs experience very different to what I describe on the dance floor?

toptoe · 09/10/2016 17:08

I wouldn't email him because 1. he'll be nasty 2. he'll have your email address.

I would email his manager anon and let them know he was behaving inappropriately.

I don't think many women speak out when it happens because you're shocked and unprepared for it and frankly concerned about confrontation and denial, making you look bad when you just want a nice evening.

Original poster
Iggypoppie · 09/10/2016 17:12

He wasn't drunk he was hosting the event.

OP posts:
AskBasil · 09/10/2016 17:18

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DailyMailPenisPieces · 09/10/2016 17:25

Passme I'm not sure it was actually!

Bowie I take it you did read the OP, in which OP said he had been reprimanded before for inappropriate behaviour? Yes? So no, touching someone on the leg very clearly abuse ... which I'm guessing why the man did it, because it is a grey area but he could still get his kicks.

Original poster
Iggypoppie · 09/10/2016 17:25

I'm sorry this thread has become divisive. It just goes to show how these arseholes employ shades of grey to their benefit. I don't know what to do. Won't be going to the police (never suggested it in the first place) but I may email him (if I can locate his email address). I don't care if he thinks I'm a loon or can't remember.

OP posts:
ChocolateWombat · 09/10/2016 17:29

Yes, I can see that persistently touching someone when they clearly don't like it (even if not verbalised) is wrong and a choice on the part of the man. What would people do in that situation in a Club for example?

My other question is about this issue of consent to physical contact. Do people think that before a man (or a woman) ever touches someone else, they must verbally ask for permission? Some people seem to be suggesting that......and I just can't see that as a realistic or even desirable thing to want.
If we accept that people make physical contact when flirting, often before asking permission, do we also think that there is then scope for misinterpretation? For example a man might think a woman is encouraging him and touch her bum, when actually she isn't and feels annoyed by the action. Do we just accept that this happens, or are we seeing this as a serious misconduct in itself, even if the man then appreciates that the woman isn't interested and stops immediately?

I understand and agree that people who persist in touching someone when it is clear they are uncomfortable with it, are doing it for some kind of power thing and it is definitely wrong. Quite what the action should then be (as in OPs query) isn't quite clear to me. Nor is whether the man (or woman) who ever touches someone, who it then turns out didn't want that to happen, is always in the wrong too.

DailyMailPenisPieces · 09/10/2016 17:30

OP Flowers If he has been repremanded before, will it make any difference? Do you know for sure he has been reprimanded? I'd be tempted to go to an employer.

PoppyBirdOnAWire · 09/10/2016 17:42

The perp was called Dean. What did you expect?

imnotreally · 09/10/2016 17:43

I think the point is that being a celebrity puts him in a position where it's harder to call him out which is why the op didn't say anything at the time. Being a celebrity can give them a sense of entitlement (see Donald trump) and that it's theirs for the taking which can lead to them raping someone. I think the op has asked a sensible question.

moomoo222 · 09/10/2016 17:55

Whaaaat? What world are we living in where some idiot touches someones leg and people use words like 'assault' and 'abuse'. Crazy times we are living in. Probably unpleasant yes - but surely OP you should have said 'please stop doing that you sleazy muppet' rather than send an email three months later Confused. Better surely that we all learn how to stand up for ourselves and know when and how to tell people to fuck right off.

Seriously though Jimmy Saville was raping kids and vulnerable people - some sleazeball touching your leg is hardly the same is it. Here's a grip everyone..

instantly · 09/10/2016 17:59

I'm starting to feel sorry for Dean....