To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

So... Remainers are all elitist snobs who sneer and stereotype Leavers and dismiss their completely valid and reasoned views.

But if Leavers post about the London liberal elite and Tabitha and nannies and artisan bakers and say "your lot lost, get over it", we must all be very clear that this is absolutely not stereotyping, or sneering, or dismissing.

Got it? Because Democracy and the Will of The People.

Voted Remain. Still really upset and pissed-off about it.

And don't give me this "the people have spoken" bullshit. It was a close result and no-one knew what "Out" would look like. When we begin to see what it will be we should have a say on that. Especially as the pound plunges and jobs are lost.

I am also pissed-off that there's not a coordinated, concerted fight-back against Brexit. There should be a cross party group of mainstream Labour, the Lib Dems and a few Tories hammering Teresa May, Boris and the other clowns over this.

Head of HSBC said today in the FT: Sterling is the de facto official opposition to UK government policies.

This thread is an interesting straw poll.

The vast majority of posters are Remain and, of the few Leave posters, there's still a few 'get over it' type comments and still nothing to try and convince us that we have a great future ahead.

I honestly think the voters that carried this over the line think it was all done and dusted on 24th June and it doesn't occur to them to think any further about it.

Please can I urge those who are concerned about the direction this country is taking to consider joining the Liberal Democrats - the only party fighting to keep Britain open, tolerant and united.

The leave campaign was a bundle of lies which are still being repeated above. Yes, there were large parts of the country left behind, but this was due to British government policies, not the EU. Go to any major EU economy - Germany, France, Sweden and see how much more evenly wealth is spread before all troubles are blamed on the EU.

Already we are losing global influence. My German DH commented that since the referendum there's less coverage of British news in the German media, because well, now that Britain is leaving the EU, what we think just matters less. And there certainly is no appetite for a 'good deal' for the UK. To many Europeans, even the phrase is distasteful - we thought we were part of a family, and arguing about 'what's in it for me?' is just missing the whole point.

Don't forget that a large part of the UK's strength in business services is our reputation as a stable and open society and economy, not a place that sneers at 'citizens of the world'.

This.

I don't think leavers have a clue of the enormity of what has to happen.

When we begin to see what [Brexit] will be we should have a say on that.

I never had a say on the Single Market. I was in exactly the same position that you are in now: I was against it but all three major parties were for it so I had nowhere to cast my vote. I've had to 'get over it' for 25 years.
Now we have, finally, been given a voice we have said "no". It is interesting that people voted Brexit even though they didn't know what it was - they were so fed up with the EU that 'anything but this' was seen as preferable.

We're all doomed. Doomed. Get a fucking grip and live your life.

"Get a fucking grip and live your life."

No dismissing going on, nothing to see here...

consider joining the Liberal Democrats - the only party fighting to keep Britain open, tolerant and united

They aren't looking to overturn the result, however.

Elememts If that is aimed at me, it isn't what I said.

Oh and I am a remain voter.

Thank you User xxxxxxxxxxxx for that erudite post. Clearly you are a Brexiter to put forward such a well presented case. :)

The vast majority of posters are Remain and, of the few Leave posters, there's still a few 'get over it' type comments and still nothing to try and convince us that we have a great future ahead

You'very answered your own question.

Many on MN are remain voters.

Whenever on threads like this, leave voters do genuinely try to explain, they get jumped on, called names etc.

I don't blame them for not posting tbh.

"Wales wants a steel industry"... well, quite, but leaving the EU isn't going to give it one. First of all, we openly avoid manual trade in this country. Just look around - people clamouring for grammars and tutors and private schools, earnestly hoping Tallulah/Horatio does A-levels and a degree - ANY degree, even footballology - because s/he is not going working at a steelworks, or down a mine, or in a sewer or a factory, oh golly gosh no.

'Leave'rs want to fill these manual jobs with Brits. Which Brits? Even if our children could see the longevity and value of a manual trade, good luck convincing your parents you want to drop out of Uni and become a carpenter. I tried it. My mother threatened to disown me and throw me out of the house when I said I didn't want to go to University. I doubt much is different these days.

Also, as you can see from stats and charts, those EU 'forriners' are well-represented not just in hospitality, domestic roles and factory work, but also in scientific research and tech/development/programming. I've no idea why we stopped producing scientists - probably about the time we sent children to school to learn how to get Bs at GCSE rather than think - but the coding scene is even worse.

I know some fab EU programmers. Because they either a) come from countries that teach programming (unlike us), or b) had the common sense to teach themselves (unlike us.) I'm sure many programmers have tales of Brit CVs they receive ("I'd like to apply for your Senior Java Dev position because I really like playing XBox and I can learn the rest on the job, right?" or the one we had from a primary school PE teacher who'd never coded a line in his life but 'desired a change') and the very few that pass muster - programming is like, I dunno, like fruit picking or something. For some reason, our youth don't want to do it or hardly even consider it a viable option.

Schools are trying to teach a bit of HTML in Year 10 but it's not exactly plugging the skill gap. But sure - I bet Saint May can't wait to pour money into the problem. High-quality programming curriculum and teachers for all. I bet there are just oodles of well-paid programmers who wake up one morning and think 'I'd love to teach high school kids'.

Second, you name it, China do it quicker and cheaper. That's all anyone cares about. Unless you can market handcrafted artisan steel, or coal, no one's going to invest in it in the UK. The only solution there is 'fix China', which is kind of enormous and never going to happen. End of. Say goodbye to the mines, the steelworks and whatever other 1950s long-dead industries you think are going to be resurrected. They aren't. Move on to a more viable career. Try coding.

Piglet seriously? Nothing at all to do with you. It was in the post right above mine!

Daily My elderly parent, albeit from Northern Ireland, voted to remain. She knew life under a pre EU and thought her life was so much better after joining, especially when it came to women's rights in the workplace. Not all women's rights of course. But she was determined to secure her rights as a working woman with children. She voted to go into the EEC as it was then, and she voted to remain. She is still very disappointed with the result too. She is 92.

I'm another devastated remainer, and devastated isn't too strong.

I'm a scientist living in another EU country. I work on very short term contracts so have no idea if I will be able to maintain my career if I have to apply for visas each time. It also means I can't stay employed anywhere long enough to get permanent residence, increasing the risk I get booted out, back to the UK where there is no work in my field, I have no friends, no connections. I'm scared no one will hire my husband because it's too much of a risk, since he may have no right to work in a few years, removing my only chance of stability. I've lost a year's salary from my house deposit because I was stupid enough to leave my savings in the UK. That hurt.

I don't want to give up my British passport, because it's part of who I am. I'll never be properly French or German even with a piece of paper. I'm probably going to be forced to in order to achieve anything approaching stability and because in my heart I'm European before I'm British. It feels like ripping a piece of who I am away.

But you know the worst bit? Sitting here absorbing the message that my country doesn't want me. I'm a European migrant who is also a highly educated expert who relies on international cooperation. The message filtering out of the UK is: we don't want foreigners, we don't want experts, we don't want the intelligentsia, by working with world class experts when there are Brits you are a traitor. To feel so unwanted by my mother country is heartbreaking.

And yes, I recognise that all the mining and steelworking and carmaking communities which got shafted by globalisation (which will continue whether we're in the EU or not) probably felt the same so maybe it's the turn of the elites to get shafted. But you know what, I'm only one generation away from coal miners, and it's the people like us who try to make companies to soak up the victims of globalisation. We can't employ everyone, but we don't deliberately screw over everyone who earns less than us. By forcing us out, maybe we leave a vacuum for the next generation to come through, or maybe we just take all the seats on the lifeboats of a sinking ship.

I feel your pain OP, I haven't moved on either. Not an inch.

But my whole point is piglet, no Leaver has attempted to reassure the Remainers on this thread.

You can choose to think it's because they'll get jumped on, but the reality is it's because there is very little that can be said to reassure people because the horizon is looking very gloomy.

You can choose to think it's because they'll get jumped on

History proves the case.

leave voters do genuinely try to explain, they get jumped on, called names etc.

There have been a number of posts telling Remainers to "get over it" in various forms ("fucks" optional). And a number that have gone into further details mocking people for being some stereotype of London liberal elite. Thus completely erasing many people who voted - not least, I would point out, that several other cities also voted Remain - so how about we acknowledge that it's not just Leavers who are the delicate little victims of internet-based verbal violence?

Whenever on threads like this, leave voters do genuinely try to explain, they get jumped on, called names etc.

What's the point in their explaining anyway? It's done.

I'm sick of people who voted Leave acting as though they're an oppressed people.

purits
I never had a say on the Single Market.

And you didn't in June. You had an In/Out question where no-one knew what Out was.

Would you be happy for us to stay in the SM and pay in to the EU budget (like Norway)? That is compatible with a Leave vote.

Or maybe you'd like another vote in that case?

My mum is disappointed for her grandchildren. And future generations. She absolutely benefited from being in the union. She wanted others to benefit as well.

Elements how about everyone stops the name calling and actually listens without shouting others down.

There are some things leavers and Remainers are never going to agree on.

Asking people to continually justify their vote when you are never going to agree achieves what?

I voted Leave and I won't post any more than that because I will get jumped on. Like many others I suspect