To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.
Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)
I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

[scaryteacher]

Smallfox With the purchasing power you forget the advantage the UK has in the VAT rates it uses. I pay 21% on gas, electricity and water in Belgium. The car tax is massive, and the cost of living here is high. I go back to the UK for clothes and shoes. The VAT on food here is either 6% or 21%. There is no zero rate VAT for books, children's clothes or shoes, or food items.

I find the UK much cheaper for many things.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

I find the UK much cheaper for many things.

Ha! Enjoy it while it lasts.

[smallfox2002]

Ah? Still not the same as buying oik in dollars though is it scary? Biggest input factor.

Go enjoy Cornwall without its funding.

[smallfox2002]

Also you realise there are different vat rates for industry?

Display your ignorance some more my dear scary... while you the advantage of the EU and the options that it had given you. You utter hypocrite.

[smallfox2002]

I mean you're more than happy to tell us how your DH and you are so skilled that you earn big money in Belgium. Do you really think that without freedom of movement they'd hire you and pay the cost? There are no people in the rest of the EU, even before expansion who have your skills?

Your more than happy to tell us how you have seen first hand the gravy train at Brussles, without actually ever acknowledging that the centre of EVERY Government has a huge gravy train, and that Brussles costs far less than any central Government.

You're happy to move back to Cornwall, which recieves huge amounts of support from the EU, and with your EU earned wealth out bid the poor locals who voted out for something to change.

Utter, utter hypocrite.

[scaryteacher]

Smallfox Dh's job is not actually EU dependent, and yes, they would hire him and pay him, and no, there aren't that many with his skills and experience to do his job. As his employer can only draw from within a certain area of expertise and within certain countries for the jobs, there really aren't that many who could do it. Furthermore, he would still be here without freedom of movement, as there is a specific agreement covering employees of his organisation.

I am aware that every government has its gravy train, but the one at the EU is massive, when you look at the costs of the per diem allowances, the subsidised canteens, the EU schools, the pensions to name but a few things. Perhaps you might like to look at the very good living the Kinnocks have made from the EU over the years as an example. You may be happy that your money is spent like that - I'm not.

I will be moving back to Cornwall, but our money is NOT EU earned. I won't be outbidding the locals on anything, as we have had the house since 92, well before dh was first posted to Brussels by the RN, and furthermore, I am a local.

Yes, I realise there are different VAT rates for industry; I was merely pointing out that we do have some advantages in the UK on VAT on some goods and services which makes certain things far cheaper than they are in Belgium. You may not like the fact that there is that difference, but it exists, and makes a difference to costs, as does the UKs far more open market in services and utilities.

I understand that you are pissed off that the referendum result means we are leaving the EU, but you need to understand that others have reasons to leave and voted accordingly. We are leaving one treaty organisation that has imo outlived its usefulness; has meddled in Ukraine; has pushed Greece to the point of collapse; can't find a response or solution to anything except to kick the can down the road and hope that time will mend the situation, or say that 'more Europe' is the solution rather than the problem; is ratcheting up its influence with the Acquis; and has a whole load of Youth unemployment which it cannot solve. The EU has no will to change or alter as was displayed with Cameron and his renegotiation. If Le Pen gets in next year in France, and Merkel is weakened or out, then Brexit will be the least of their worries.

Under, I'm not a Marmite lover, and as I hadn't seen Unilever drop prices when sterling was higher, then I assume this is an attempt to maximise profits.

[Peregrina]

If a freestanding EU army came to pass, we would not be supporting it.

BoJo disagreed with you.

[scaryteacher]

Peregrina Michael Fallon doesn't though, and he is SofS for Defence, not Boris.

[LellyMcKelly]

Still gutted about the result. Still can't get why two countries would vote to make themselves poorer, or put jobs at risk. Genuinely can't understand how the vague reasons people give for leaving are worth sacrificing our economic prosperity. Economically we're throwing ourselves off a cliff, and denying ourselves rights and freedoms that we were entitled to as citizens of the EU. I have dual citizenship, and am getting myself and my kids second passports so that we can continue to travel freely around Europe, and they can get jobs there more easily if they wish. I hate the racism and xenophobia that seems to be rearing its ugly head. You can tell me that you won and to get over it as much as you want. You can call me a remoaner (hilarious) until the cows come home, but this isn't some football match where we shake hands and move on. And the debate about hard or soft Brexit is pointless. We are going to get what the EU decides to give us, and I suspect that will be our arse handed to us on a plate.

[burdog]

I'm still upset. I work for a French company, that fortunately will not depend on our membership of the EU to stay here. It's a great company, provides the all too vaunted 'apprenticeships' and 'proper' jobs that the local Brexiters were complaining that the EU had brought to a halt.
I also dislike the smug inference that Remainers should now shut up or are sore losers (because they are the metropolitan elite and are used to getting their own way or something) or by continuing to disagree are not accepting democracy or something. This is unmitigated BOLLOCKS. We have a government, and an opposition. Did we expect the Tories from 1997-2010 to shut up and agree with everything Labour did? No we did not. Do we now expect Labour to shut up and accept everything the Tories do? No we do not. Continuing to advocate for a position after an election, referendum etc is a cornerstone of our democracy.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

We are supposed to shut up because there is no plan. What happens now is going to be complex and drawn out. Repeating tabloid cliches is easy unraveling 40 years of policy is tedious and requires critical thinking.

No wonder Boris looked sheepish the day after the referendum and Farage stood down.

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

The principle of Europe is to ceed soveringty to an unelected body in return for some so called better deal. In other words getting money in return undermining our sovereign government.

In the past such behaviour would be instantly recognised as treason. And those who proposed such ideas would have a one way trip to the Tower.

[myfavouritecolourispurple]

I understand that you are pissed off that the referendum result means we are leaving the EU, but you need to understand that others have reasons to leave and voted accordingly. We are leaving one treaty organisation that has imo outlived its usefulness; has meddled in Ukraine; has pushed Greece to the point of collapse; can't find a response or solution to anything except to kick the can down the road and hope that time will mend the situation, or say that 'more Europe' is the solution rather than the problem; is ratcheting up its influence with the Acquis; and has a whole load of Youth unemployment which it cannot solve. The EU has no will to change or alter as was displayed with Cameron and his renegotiation. If Le Pen gets in next year in France, and Merkel is weakened or out, then Brexit will be the least of their worries

Despite being a Remain voter, I cannot disagree with any of this. I guess I vote in favour of the EU because it suits me personally - eg I don't want employment rights to be adversely affected and I value freedom of movement. And I don't want the economy trashing.

I have another question about the EU though. Everyone says it has guaranteed peace in Europe. I think it exists because there is peace in Europe - somewhat different. Can anyone tell me if the EU did anything to help the NI peace process? I know that the Good Friday agreement is predicated on both states being in the EU - but did the EU actually help? They've done nothing to help the situation in Gibraltar and seem to let the Spanish government whinge on and cause difficulties (including for their own people who work there).

[smallfox2002]

Yes because the current government are going to a route of offering democracy and sovereignty aren't they?

Scary - Didn't say your job was EU related, the point was that without FOM someone else would be hired.

[TheElementsSong]

In the past such behaviour would be instantly recognised as treason. And those who proposed such ideas would have a one way trip to the Tower.

What exactly are you saying?

[justgivemeamo]

Free movement has not worked as it was supposed to it - its not only failed in its initial premise its also failed in that there has been no balance eg - no rush to go and live in Eastern Bloc countries. It has failed and not only that its caused the deep unhappiness of citizens across Europe. I doubt the far right would have any clout across the EU had FOM been foisted on us.

In fact if it was never implemented in the way it has been - then I imagine the EU would be a happier place and a perhaps a more economically viable place.

[scaryteacher]

Smallfox As I pointed out, FOM makes no difference whatsoever to Dh's employer, as there is a specific agreement that has been in place since the 50s. We would still be able to be resident in Belgium irrespective of FOM, so no, you are incorrect in this case, and someone else would not have been hired.

[justgivemeamo]

Go enjoy Cornwall without its funding


If cornwall is an area that needs funding - cornwall is an area that needs looking at to see how it can stand on its own two feet rather than being reliant on funding.

[TheElementsSong]

rather than being reliant on funding

Seems the council weren't so keen on that idea, seeing as they immediately requested a guarantee of funding after they voted to Leave.

[MakemineaGandT]

Hope us heartbroken "remoaners" are going to have a new thread when this one is full. OP will you start one?! How are you feeling nearly 1000 comments after your initial post?

My anger has resurfaced in a big way these last few days......but I do have a growing confidence that the Brexit liars will eventually be held to account. They will go down in history badly.........

[Egoanono]

I'm a remainer. I am still devastated and so very sad. I am still in shock I think as I can't quite believe it will happen. I think 2016 might just be a bad dream I'll wake up from soon.

[LellyMcKelly]

The EU funded a £425m package to promote peace, pay for training and apprenticeships, and help develop infrastructure in NI as part of the Good Friday Agreement it also helped to broker. Since the Good Friday Agreement the NI tourist industry has flourished, and the country has developed as a thriving TV and movie destination. This would have been unthinkable without the money, but also the changing of attitudes and beliefs. NI still has its problems, but the NI of today is completely different to the NI of 30 years ago. The EU can't claim all the credit, but it is an administration both sides were prepared to put their trust in.

[GladAllOver]

Good to hear that Lelly.
And now it looks like there might have to be a hard border again. That's awful to contemplate. :(

[Peanutandphoenix]

I voted to leave and I stick by my vote because I am sick of Polish and Romanians being allowed to just come here and bleed the benefits system dry when they have paid nothing in to it take all the houses and think they are entitled to hell and all from the NHS. We'll all be better off out of the EU and we'll get the country that we had back. The country that men gave their lives to fight for during WW2 has long gone and we now pander to the demands of every other country we need to get our country back and send everyone who no longer has a right to be here packing. Look what happened when Tony Blair dragged us in to the mess with America we ended up becoming a target and got bombed that would never of happened if we hadn't been dragged in to the mess.

[winkywinkola]

Peanut, yes I believe many people voted leave for the same reasons.

I've not found any factual evidence to back up the claims in your post.

Other than the cobblers spouted by the Express and the Daily Mail.

I mean properly researched evidence aside from anecdotes.

Have you got any?