To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

Enough with the self pity. It's tiresome. I've seen plenty of very poor behaviour from those who voted Leave. As well as from those who voted Remain.

People that are still incredulous at the result are seriously living in a bubble. Is it not a surprise that working class people voted leave because they are the group that has suffered the most under the EU? Uncontrolled mass migration drives wages down for the poorest of society. When I took my job on 10 years ago, my wage was 9.50 per hour. Now it is being advertised at 7.50 per hour. A relative of mine, a builder lost his house because he could not compete with the Eastern European builders who were prepared to live 10 people per house. I know a lady who found herself unexpectedly jobless, pregnant and homeless. She lived with her baby for months in a hostel because there was no social housing available. Gp surgeries are full to bursting round here - can't see a doctor for 2 weeks. Housebound patients can not get a home visit unless they are practically dropping down dead. Schools are full too with various languages being spoken per class. They have cut the funding for special needs children so they now get practically no help. Children that were statemented several years ago can no longer get one leaving them to fall further and further behind. There is money for interpreters though. People don't understand why the country voted leave? It is quite simple really. The majority of people are not racist or xenophobic. Simply, they have seen their quality of life deteriorate rapidly and tried to do something about it.

But I suppose none of that matters as it will not be as easy for dearest Archibald to go and study ballet in Paris.

Bunty How about quoting everything I said rather than a snippet of it?

I wasn't a leave voters. I voted remain and campaigned for it.

I wasn't referring to you! I was talking in general

And I can quote what I like thanks v much!

The point of Leaver trying to explain is to at least give Remainers some glimmer of hope that the Leavers actually have courage of their convictions on the way the voted and that the huge crock of shit we are currently in is going to be worth it.

I agree it's not worth talking about 'why' they voted Leave per se, but it is very relevant to talk about what they see the future looking like because, from a Remainers point of view, it's looking bleak.

It was actually to Davros fyi

Piglet I believe that I have neither called names nor shouted people down, and I agree that it is too bloody late to ask people to justify anything - it is NOT ever going to be too late to discuss it though.

Incidentally, would you kindly note that yet another anti-Remain stereotype has been deposited on this thread?

Even if our children could see the longevity and value of a manual trade, good luck convincing your parents you want to drop out of Uni and become a carpenter. I tried it. My mother threatened to disown me and throw me out of the house when I said I didn't want to go to University. I doubt much is different these days.

I don't doubt that this was your experience, but you can't generalise for the whole population based on that. My dad is a carpenter. His parents were pleased because he started out labouring, and carpentry pays better. My brother worked as a labourer when he left school. Nobody disowned him or suggested that manual work was somehow shameful. My family's attitudes aren't shared by everyone in Britain, but then neither are yours.

I'm mainly devastated that they might not let me bring back a carload of cheap wine from France once a year.

Good post Lion king.

To people who say they can see no benefits to leaving. Do you not see that the recent decision to train more doctors is linked to the decision to leave the EU?

I don't get this 'I felt European' I've never met anyone who says 'my names Jo and I'm a European'. When I'm in Europe, people introduce themselves as French, German, Italian. Why is it shabby to be British? Also, geographically we haven't shifted, we are part of Europe. We are just parting from a political union made up of lots of separate countries all of whom have their own national identities

True. But most of those countries are part of a union which is not just political and there will be barriers in the way of enjoying that being part of Europe. I do think of myself as British before European, but I had the chance to work and study in Germany, and my son almost certainly will not have the chance eg to study in Spain as he is learning Spanish - or if he does, it will be much more difficult bureaucratically and will cost a lot more. He may be able to go to South America of course. But it's not the same.

What upsets me though is that the Europeans have given up on us already eg with the comments on here about them thinking we've lost our marbles. 48% of us voted to remain. We can't all move to Europe (I don't qualify for any other passport). I guess my only chance is that Scotland become independent and they let people with English accents in!

I haven't moved on either. If anything the whole thing just gets more and more depressing. What an almighty fuck up.

And Lionking - the lack of resources is not the fault of the EU - that is the fault of the government which has refused to invest in the resources needed because of "austerity".

It does now seem like the penny is beginning to drop with the government eg training more doctors and building more houses. But even if we stop all immigration tomorrow, we have a high birth rate too - so we need more resources regardless of whether we are in the EU or not.

The second language in England and Wales is Welsh and then Polish. It is 546,000 people who speak Polish. 562,000 who speak Welsh.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/30/polish-becomes-englands-second-language

Lion king, there is a housing crisis. Not enough housing is being built and our housing stock was sold off by the Tories in the '80s. It's not been replaced.

The builders I speak to say they can't get the labourers they require. Construction workers are few on the ground. Wages as a result are very high hence the bonkers quotes I have been given for my loft conversion!

Cuts to the NHS will explain an awful lot of delays.

Can you find me figures for immigration that explain your "mass uncontrolled immigration"?

What proportion of the UK's population is immigrants, do you think?

I think Leave voters want to go back to the 1950s where it was all white faces etc. Because they genuinely believe it was better. Bollocks was it better. Thank god we've moved on since then.

We were the 5th largest economy in the world. We were doing very well economically. People suffered because of our government's austerity measures. Not because of the EU! (We are now the 6th largest economy since Brexit.)

Free education, free healthcare, stability, no war, policing, laws to protect workers rights etc. How have you suffered?

What is it you have missed out on exactly directly because of the EU?

Can can you prove it is directly because of the UK's membership of the EU?

Bet you won't bother!

But I suppose none of that matters as it will not be as easy for dearest Archibald to go and study ballet in Paris

It's this kind of sneering that really gets my bloody back up. As though everyone who voted Remain is some kind of wealthy, self centred, luvvie.

gratesnakes, why couldn't we train more doctors before leaving the EU? Why not? Why now?

So far as I can see, many Leavers on this thread voted Leave for spiteful reasons.

All the sneering, childish posts about Jocasta and Horatio are ridiculous. Voting Leave or Remain wasn't a class decision and, if you're blaming the EU for the Conservative Party's Austerity policies, you really didn't understand the first thing about what you were voting for, did you?

Incidentally, would you kindly note that yet another anti-Remain stereotype has been deposited on this thread?

If you kindly note that there has been another anti-Leave stereotype however I'm not keeping a tally and think people should just stop stereotyping each other

We've moved to Scotland post Brexit. Scotland going independent and so joining the EU again not so straightforward, due to their massive deficit / reliance on English money.
Having said that, at least we're no longer surrounded by UKIP voting red-necks and rich stuff the poor Tory voters.

I am overjoyed we are leaving - the future looks exciting and new , all those billions of Chinese to trade with, all those Indians, Pakistanis etc etc. No more sitting like ducks while wealthy CEO s build their millions, no more rolling over whilst multinationals chuck a few thousands in tax at us , were freeeeeeeeeeee

The referendum was nothing more than an opinion poll based on lies, lies and more lies.

It had nothing to do with functioning democracy.

if you're blaming the EU for the Conservative Party's Austerity policies, you really didn't understand the first thing about what you were voting for, did you?

I disliked the EU long before austerity. And the undercutting of wages by allowing in Accession Country people was Tony Blair's doing.

missmargie what do you think those billions of Chinese, Indian and Pakistanis what to buy from us that they can't produce themselves or source more locally?