To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.
Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)
I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

[merrymouse]

connects.soton.ac.uk/feature/eu-funding-post-brexit/

Southampton also has a university.

"The University is currently involved in 57 Horizon 2020 EU projects with 430 partners worth over £220m, of which over £40m will come direct to Southampton over the next four to five years."

It's so quaint when you read about the aims of Horizon 2020.

"These measures will aim at breaking down barriers to create a genuine single market for knowledge, research and innovation."

What a bunch of rootless elites!

Of course some leavers genuinely thought they were voting for more openness to the world. However, the country has apparently spoken and Brexit is not up for discussion.

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

wasonthelist

You misunderstand

I was saying that my post saying that both statement could be true was referring to your turkey post as the thread had moved on so fast

I should have said referring to in my post, but i thought it was clear as it was directly under my other post...which i am guessing you didnt see

I wasnt even debating

I was just asking a quesion

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

I have pm'ed was with the same message

[Peregrina]

Don't kid yourselves that if an EU army came to pass and went to war somewhere, that the UK Govt wouldn't want a slice of the action. We would suddenly find that the EU was good after all and throw our weight behind them.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

merrymouse i am not arguing the points of we are better to be in the EU I voted to remain (though I felt we were better to stay in and make changes)

The point I am making is we should have seen it coming that if the vote was put to the public that there was a high possibility that we would leave and the government didn't get that and neither did many mp's. People vote on what they feel is best for them many people couldn't see the benefits of being in the EU, areas of the UK that felt they had been left behind would more than likely identify with issues they have in Southampton or Boston

There were not listened their concerns were not acknowledged just lectured and told they were wrong look the reports and stats tell them so and to often they didn't reflect their experiences at all

We had a wake up call in 2015 UKIP is now the third party of this country DC should have backed down from his promise (which of course would have caused problems) but it was ignored

[merrymouse]

areas of the UK that felt they had been left behind would more than likely identify with issues they have in Southampton or Boston

There has been a lot of investment in Southampton recently. However, increased mechanisation and foreign competition means that demand in industries like ship building and dock work don't exist anymore.

Leaving the EU will not enable anyone to turn back the clock, however real their experience.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

well I have read there had been investment in Southampton

I am not sure if people feel they benefited from it (as with other areas of the country) no matter how many times you or I or others tell them about it

[smallfox2002]

"People vote on what they feel is best for them many people couldn't see the benefits of being in the EU, areas of the UK that felt they had been left behind would more than likely identify with issues they have in Southampton or Boston"

Right lets deal with this "left behind" thing. The average unemployment rate in both of these places is below the national, in Southampton it is significantly below it. It is hardly a "left behind" area like those of the North East and Wales where unemployment is far greater than the national average.

Boston suffers mainly because it is a small town and people are socially conservative and don't like change. Think about it, in an area where 94% of children got their first choice school, 2.4% got their second choice you can't really say the services are pressured. The same goes for the hospital wards, in 2001 the hospital was due to lose its maternity ward due to lack of demand, but it was kept open.

Rents are higher in Boston than in Lincs in general, but not in comparison with other market towns. The fact is that in Boston like many other places immigration has become the issue to blame for many other ills, but in reality its not the case. Many of the objections in Boston are down to prejudice and fear of change.

Its not about lecturing people, its about acknowledging that they say that these are issues, and then asking further questions, are these real issues or are they result of fear of change?

The fact is that UKIP is most popular in areas with low immigration, not high, what does that tell you?

[merrymouse]

If you wander around Southampton on a Saturday, it doesn't feel left behind. There are areas that have huge poverty, but that is also true of London. Maybe the indigenous population who remember jobs in heavy industry are less dispersed in Southampton?

However, leaving the EU will not make car production return to Southampton and it will not stop the EU giving more money to Turkey.

At some point policy has to be based on what is possible, not wishful thinking.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

maybe the people of Southampton do feel left behind .... I am not sure I can tell them they are wrong just because I have read that unemployment is worse in other parts of the country. But you have proved my point ......


many felt Farage listened to them it was that simple. Like Trump he has tapped into something and that is that many people feel a real seperation from those that run the country. While our country was booming (and this goes back to the late 90's) parts of the country things hadn't changed and for many it's got worse especially since 2008. We know about all the cuts but how can we tell people things are better staying in the EU when they are not experiencing things getting better

If the remain party had acknowledged this had acknowledged that immigration for some hasn't had a positive impact had listened and engaged we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't deny that there are some people who voted leave did so as they are driven by their own prejudice views. But I feel far more
voted leave as they wanted change and those changes are based on a number of issues immigration was a big issue though that stupidly Remain didn't really want to deal with

Anyway it's going round in circles.

[smallfox2002]

But wanting change and not knowing what you are voting for are two very different things.

The referendum wasn't lost by remain because they didn't listen to people and repeating it over and over again is bunkum.

It lost because the leave camp made all sorts of promises to a vast array of different groups with different vested interests. Many of which will not be kept.

"We know about all the cuts but how can we tell people things are better staying in the EU when they are not experiencing things getting better"

Because again the leave campaign blamed all sorts on the EU that is not the fault of the EU, and on immigration, doesn't make it true.

Essentially the leave campaign won by a very narrow margin by promising every stakeholder group that it would have their interests at heart. Immigration would be cut, employment right would be kept, we'd still have access to all EU markets, we'd have more money for the NHS, we'd be able to trade more freely with other nations, we'd be able to get rid of EU restrictions on produts and services, we'd be able to buy food cheaper from Africa, it would be easier for people from ex commonwealth areas to come etc etc.

It isn't the fact that people weren't listened to, its the fact that the leave campaign promised the earth to so many.

[ScaredFuture99]

The problem wiith lecturing is that every side is feeling it's OK to lecture the other.
So we've had 'lectures' about immigration, Eu investments in the UK, EU and the lack of sovereignty and lectures about how now the vote has been done it's not OK to discuss lecture about whether it was the right choice in the first place or what will be the best way forward and even lecture about lecturing people....

I think most people know the facts. The reality is that people do not vote with facts. They vote with their heart and their feelings.
People have felt that none listens to them. People (eg in NE) feels they are left behind BY THE SOUTH. It's easy, or rather EASIER, to find someone and out all the blame on it.
For years and years it has been the EU, blamed for absolutely everything, incl was is in effect very much British decisions and politics (eg wages or the NHS)
So the EU is gone (or will be soon)....

But still nothing is done about what is thr REAL problem that few politicians want to tackle.

It's a shame because the divide North/South (or London/everyone else??) is probably one of the biggest issue in the UK.

[smallfox2002]

This is the thing. None of the changes that people have voted for will occur, apart from EU immigration, but that won't reduce fully.

[Niamer]

This is the thing. None of the changes that people have voted for will occur, apart from EU immigration, but that won't reduce fully

Exactly and we'll be billions and billions of pounds worse off. There are many many unhappy Remain voters, like myself on this thread. Think it is very important we vocalise our feelings and at the very least hinder T.M's gallop towards a Hard Brexit. It is not the British way to make a fuss, but I fear as a nation we may sleep walk into a very big hole. T.M is not hearing us at all at the moment, or rather is not admitting to hearing us- so our message needs to be louder and clearer.

[ladyjadey]

Placemarking

[Tissunnyupnorth]

I'm slightly confused about the hard/soft brexit issue. If, as is often stated, restricting immigration was a big factor in the leave vote then there is no option but to leave the single market (hard brexit?)? Haven't the leaders of other European countries said from day one that there will be no membership of the single market without free movement of people?

What would a 'soft' brexit look like?

[smallfox2002]

Norway.

[prettybird]

Or Switzerland (especially since they backtracked on restricting FoM)

[GladAllOver]

What would a 'soft' brexit look like?

There is no such thing, it's impossible - just wishful thinking. Since it was decided to do such a stupid thing as leave the EU, there is no compromise possible because the UK government insists on blocking free movement. The EU won't stand for that so there is nothing but hard Brexit,

[ToastDemon]

How are all your Brexiters enjoying sterling's 168 year low?
All going well, isn't it

[granny24]

I bet the Brexiters don't go on European holidays. Pound has dropped by nearly a third since the vote to leave. Thanks a bunch you Brexiters. Just wait until the annual supermarket contacts run out. Food prices are going to soar.Won't bother Farange or Boris.They are millionaires.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

I think someone has to kidnap David Davies. Every time he opens his mouth, the pound drops a bit more.

Disclaimer: not a serious request

[ToastDemon]

I'm going to tell Putin that Davies called him gay.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Toast

[scaryteacher]

Don't kid yourselves that if an EU army came to pass and went to war somewhere, that the UK Govt wouldn't want a slice of the action. We would suddenly find that the EU was good after all and throw our weight behind them. Don't kid yourself Peregrina. The EU can only act militarily at the moment if NATO decides not to do so, and as we are a member of NATO, we would be supporting them. If a freestanding EU army came to pass, we would not be supporting it.