To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

It is very important that we try to understand the positions of the others in this. the nation is split almost 50/50 on this. Families are divided even. There is no point in acrimony. I accept the vote. i was Remain but Brexit won fair and square and now we exist the EU and make the best of it.

If we can understand better people who are different from ourselves in this proces then so much the better.

I would probably agree with some remainers being very superior, in their posts

But i also think that some leavers posts can be very patronising

That you live in a bubble of privilege. You like what the EU has done for you and can't see that that has been achieved at the expense of many, many others.

I don't live in a "bubble" of privilege but considering leaving the EU will have a more negative impact on the less privileged than anyone else that is hardly relevant.

Do you know what might possibly have persuaded me to stay? - if some European politicians had said "we like you, don't leave us". I know that it is a minefield when you start interfering in other countries' politics but a simple "we like you" would have worked wonders. Instead we got threats of "if you dare upset the apple-cart we will ..."
David Cameron went to the EU and said "Britain isn't happy, throw us a bone. Give me something to take back to the electorate" and they gave him nothing.

People voted Brexit because they couldn't see benefit to themselves of remaining in a system that encouraged an undercutting of their wages. You might have benefited from the EU but an awful lot didn't.

I think you mean I realised the benefits of the EU, but an awful lot didn't. I could list dozens of things that the EU does that benefit all of us in our every day life, but I will stick with two words for starters : Cancer research.

Cancelly Can I ask if you think Trump is a step too far in the Fascism direction?

Trump's popularity really shocks me. I think much of what he says is very unpleasant populist rhetoric and I hope very much that he doesn't win.

But if he did win, I don't believe he'd be able to put into action any of the worst things he talks about, because even the President is just one person and he wouldn't have the support of more reasonable Republicans, let alone anyone else.

I'm also getting extremely pissed off with May and her "will of the people" bollocks

I'm not I am finding after a decade of being ignored and called every name of the sun - its a breath of fresh air to finally feel like Brexiteers are being listened too.

For me, it's a part of my identity that is being taken from me

As we are not packing the UK up and putting it on the moon I think you sound like you have been sold marketing bollocks.

The EU is not going anywhere, UK is not going anywhere. Does it really matter about a flag!

I can understand why some of you do feel such gloom if you really believe all travel etc is going to be cut off forever more I would join you on the misery bench.

Thankfully I know we will always be able to travel, live and work in the EU as we have always done since time immemorial. However we may have to do it in a very slightly different way, and thats fine by me.

I think you are being a bit U. There were a lot of positives from being in the EU but there are also a lot of positives from leaving. Can you not see them at all?
Me2017 makes a good point that change is an opportunity even when unwelcome. All organisations need a good shakeup from time to time and we are getting that.

purits

" Instead we got threats of "if you dare upset the apple-cart we will ..."

^^ Some said they read it has been likened to Alcatraz the fortress no one can leave.

Is that the way to behave? Really? A club that no country can ever choose to leave?????? Awful.

But Cancelly he is popular. Are those people supporting him stupid? Unintelligent? They have a democratic vote after all.

I don't live in a "bubble" of privilege but considering leaving the EU will have a more negative impact on the less privileged than anyone else that is hardly relevant.

^^

I cant re hash all of this, and thankfully dont need too but how can you say that? Didn't you ever read Frank Fields PLEA - vote leave for the poor? Labour politician???? Works in one of the most deprived areas of the UK and he saw FIRST HAND how being in the EU with mass immigration - destroyed his constituents, VOTE LEAVE FOR THE POOR, he pleaded....I have seen with my own eyes, the scrabble for the crumbs at the bottom from UK citizens and people from extremely poor countries also joining in that scramble It was vile.

It winds me up so much that people continue to refer to this as 'winning' or 'losing'. It isn't and never was a game.

Our government are now blaming everything on immigration. How the hell would you like it if your kid's name has to go on a list? Do no leavers see that this is fundamentally wrong?

The leavers - whether they like it or not - are now being represented by Farage. He who cannot decide whether to be leader or not of the political party who publicly fight in parliament. The party is a joke.

I am fed up of May / Farage / Davis etc seemingly forgetting that actually 48.1% of this country do not want brexit and remain do not want this disgusting immigrant bashing to be carried out in our name.

And for those who say 'it's democracy, get over it' - do you realise we are entitled to oppose this? Do you understand we have opposition parties?

I don't think anyone has moved on from that referendum.

Remainers are still gutted by the result. It was close, very close and they are very worried that their worst fears will happen.
Leavers have voted Leave for a lot of reasons but very few of them did it on the reasons that TM think they have. She is following her agenda as if everyone had voted for that. They haven't.

On the top of that, plenty of insults have been flying around on both sides, sniggering, putting down and the like. It has divided the whole country in a way that traditional parties never have and taht goes way beyond parties (to start with the referendum hasn't been a case of I'm conservative therefore I vote Leave. I'm labour, therefore I voted Remain)

The whole campaign has also changed the relationships within the country A LOT. The acceptance of xenophobic attitudes for example is a major shift in the British society that has always been extremely welcoming of 'differences'

So yes, I'm not surprised you haven't 'got over it'. IT's not going to happen for a long time.

BUT it also looks like people have gone back to their usual 'don't talk about politics' even more so now that it is such a sensitive subject and feelings are running high and following 'authority' along the lines of 'well TM has been elected anyway. That's the way it is. We can't do anything about it etc etc. Apathy of the public has always been somehow part of British politics. It still is.

Not remotely over it nor likely to be as live in Europe, earn in pounds, not married to a national, don't currently have citizenship here and have a son who is a national of the country I live in. So I am massively affected! And I am furious. Beyond furious actually. Not because I "lost" before some dickhead pops up to tell me that. I am a labour voter who remembers the 80's and I support a shit football team - I am used to "losing" and I have no problem "moving on" when it happens. This is totally different.

I am furious because of a campaign based on blatant lies and meaningless slogans - the likes of which I have never witnessed (the speed in which key players distanced themselves from these pledges proves my point IMO).

I am furious because when I queued to get my son the forms to finally get his British passport sorted a few weeks after the vote and was overheard saying he already had his Italian one, some idiot behind me in the queue snorted loudly and passed commentary about how this was just the beginning. In front of my bilingual, dual nationality, Britain loving son!

I am furious that since that point I haven't known whether to speak Italian with him when out in public in the UK or let his slightly accented English also mark him out as foreign as I have heard so many shameful stories re blatant racism and xenophobia from my EU friends living in the UK.

I am furious that my settled family life in another member state suddenly looks uncertain and I am plagued by anxieties regarding how and where and if I will be able to remain if a Hard Brexit happens.

I am furious that my wages have tanked due to exchange rates and every sign is showing that they will tank massively further. Mentioning that seems to provoke snide remarks about how I choose to live abroad as if I have committed some unpatriotic act by exercising my long possessed right to be British, yet European and live in another state. I am made to feel as if I have somehow "rejected" Britain and therefore need to "suck it up".

I am furious that the rest of Europe bar the ones you don't want to be associated with (eg far right fringe movements) think we are now a far right and idiotic country playing with fire, an opinion which has been reinforced by the bullshit rhetoric coming from the Tory conference this week about listing foreigners and foreign doctors etc. There is also a feeling that they just want us to get on with it now, that we have become an irritant, an irrelevance. It is embarrassing. I don't want to feel embarrassed of my country and where I am from.

I am furious because of the hypocrisy we are witnessing - e.g. can you imagine the tabloid headlines if the idea to list foreign workers had come out of the German majority party conference?

I am furious that the English arrogance means no one seems to be giving a shit about what this means for the Good Friday agreement or the Remain voting Scots.

I am furious that some "who's dick is the biggest" competition between Boris and Dave and the lies and anti EU propaganda the press has fed us for decades has bought us to this point.

I am furious that a small group of people (because I cling to the belief that a majority of Leave voters did not vote for what we are seeing now in terms of racism, xenophobia and walk off the edge of a cliff politics and economics) have hijacked my country's direction and they are shamelessly playing to the lowest common denominator in people.

I am furious because despite months reading posts on these boards, Facebook etc I still can count on 2 fingers the amounts of times I have read actual reasons why Leave voters felt EU membership adversely affected them personally and concretely. You may think the reasons for my anger that I am listing here are irrelevant but in amongst my wider concerns are factual examples of how this is having a direct adverse affect on my life. Why is it so hard to find examples of how EU membership had a direct adverse affect on individuals lives?

I am furious that I no longer look forward to visiting the country of my birth, the country where I grew up, where I built my career, a country I love and that I was unable to get excited by the Olympics when I normally would have been at the edge of my seat willing Team GB on. And I don't understand if this nastiness and prejudice and the island mentality was always there under the surface and I just missed seeing it or if it is a recent thing but either way - I loathe it.

I could go on.....

It is my fucking flag too and I am furious what is being done in its name.

Thankfully I know we will always be able to travel, live and work in the EU as we have always done since time immemorial. However we may have to do it in a very slightly different way, and thats fine by me.

I hope so! Yes I have been on the "misery bench" ( love that expression!) and feeling as though we ARE completely cutting ourselves off from Europe, which I hope can never happen. TM's speech was utterly repellent to me; I cannot imagine ever feeling confident about the future with her at the helm, but hopefully some loud voices will speak up soon to redress the balance that has seemed very lacking this week.

Do you understand we have opposition parties?

Tbf the main oppositon parry leader seems -un- surprisingly very quiet about the whole thing....

How the hell would you like it if your kid's name has to go on a list?

well if I was living in Australia or even France, I would have expected my name to go on a list somewhere at some point.

I would expect my host country to know I was living there? Wouldnt you>

However as we know there are no checks in the UK, no identity cards, the only way we have had of having even a rough Gage of who lives here from over seas in the EU was when they applied for NI numbers. I believe once someone with a clip board stopped some cars coming off the ferrry from Dover and those who he managed to stop asked - how long they might be staying for.

So no, it wouldn't worry me or concern me in the slightest. Except, I would be thinking " did the government never know I was here in the first place? Sloppy, what kind of place is this!"

Piglet - yes I text my friend about that this morning. I basically wish we could steal Caroline Lucas however Kier Starmer as Shadow Brexit Secretary is a good thing.

Op, its not possible to cut ourselves off, we have not done that. Don't worry.

I'm still upset by it, I don't think I'll ever get over it.

When your Home Secretary comes out with a speech that is indistinguishable from Mein Kampf, it's time to get worried.

Tbf the main oppositon parry leader seems -un- surprisingly very quiet about the whole thing....

Well of course, the core of the Labour party seems to have voted Leave.

under does it worry you that the core of Labour seems to have voted leave too?

Only one other country has voted to leave the EU and that was Greenland, though most of it's 56,000 citizens remain EU citizens. It took three years to do this. On one single issue, fishing.

www.itv.com/news/2016-05-10/what-lessons-can-the-uk-learn-from-greenland-leaving-the-eu/

So how long will negotiations take with regard to the UK leaving? I'm guessing at least 10 years. Hard Brexit? I don't think so. Besides the government don't have the civil servants in place to do the negotiations. Huge recruitment now taking place to deal with this.

justgive your name wouldn't have gone on a list ANYWHERE in France.
There are a lot of things that are illegal in France, incl making list recording people's race/religion/nationalities.
It is nowhere near the 'norm'.

It doesn't mean that people aren't checked to see if there is any issue with illegal immigration etc...
But that, clearly, wouldn't apply to EU citizens.

however Kier Starmer as Shadow Brexit Secretary is a good thing.

I agree and I like him a lot. He does however thankfully have very different views on things to Corbyn so how long he will remain in post, I don't know.