To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.
Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)
I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

[myfavouritecolourispurple]

Hi OP, I'm still finding it very hard to accept the result as well - as is a colleague of mine. My dh is more sanguine - he takes the view he had his say, he voted remain, it didn't work but that's life. But he has never lived or studied or worked overseas and doesn't really "get" how devastating it will be to lose that, or to only be able to do it if you can afford visas and trips to London embassies etc. If we'd voted to stay, everything would have gone on as it had been. As things are so many lives are going to be devastated, particularly those Brits living overseas and vice versa. Why should they be pawns in negotiations? It's not a case of "getting a life" - our children are about to have life chances snatched from them - there is probably another generation coming hot on the heels of the financial crisis who will find it difficult to get jobs. Except this time they will only be able to look in the UK, the EU countries will be closed to them. Elderly people in say Spain or Malta may find they have to come back to the UK. They may find that their relatives have to get visas to visit them. I know people say that won't happen because the tourist industry needs British tourists but then they said the German car manufacturers need British buyers and they've made clear they can manage without us, we're a small fraction of their market and they'll find the buyers elsewhere, just as the tourist resorts will find tourists from other countries.

Both EU and UK politicians are putting dogma ahead of the good of the people and that disgusts me. Teresha May wants to unify the Tory party, some EU politicians wants to "punish" the UK and give us a bad deal so that nobody else tries to leave - because they want to make sure the EU can't change and affect their jobs. I am disgusted with them all. Especially considering nearly half the country voted to stay in the EU - they seem to be forgetting that very quickly - we can obviously go and hang ourselves.

As for the "stop whinging" brigade - there was another referendum in 1975 and ever since then the Leavers have moaned about that result.

[ToastDemon]

I'm also getting extremely pissed off with May and her "will of the people" bollocks. So just fuck the almost half the country that voted Remain then? Do we not matter? Or right that's because we're all wealthy, superior snobs sneering at people over our Guardians. Or something.
And as for the rest that voted Leave - well quite frankly what percentage of them knew what they were voting for? A hard Brexit? That wasn't on the ballot paper. How can that woman claim a mandate for that?
And as for the whole "your team lost, get over it" bullshit, I think people need some lessons in democracy. In a democracy, if you don't like a result or the way something is going, you campaign for change. You get to complain about it publicly. It's not a case of you have one go to have your say then you have to shut up.

[purits]

Quite, Piglet. The EU may have suited London and the SE but it did few favours for the rest of the country. Perhaps if London had shared their good fortune instead of hogging it to themselves then the country might have been more united. All that hubris about being a 'global city' while the rest of the country rotted ...
People voted Brexit because they couldn't see benefit to themselves of remaining in a system that encouraged an undercutting of their wages. You might have benefited from the EU but an awful lot didn't.

[jessica29054]

This board is quite London centric I think.

I don't know about reasons for voting though. Certainly I found that most of my contemporaries assumed I was voting to remain and the day after the result most of my Facebook was filled with furious posts about racist idiots, pictures of the European flag with a fallen star and so on.

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

Part way through the thread

Voted remain

i have a little problem with the "leavers would have taken losing better" i just feel that thats rubbish. i appreciate thats just an opinion but its ever so easy to say stuff like "well if my football team lost they wouldnt have rioted" but its based on nothing. And comments like "you lost, get over it" are inane as well

Not directed at anyone and i am included both remain and leave voters in this but a lot of people dont seem to understand what democracy is, a fair few seem to think that we have manged to exit and/or there have been very few economic issues...worrying

I am not devastated but nothing (apart from more expensive holidays) is affecting me yet. Someone i work with has a dh that went self employed just before brexit and he has been unable to get any work since we left, the irony is that i am fairly positive that they voted exit

I am very shallow but i am concerned about how our actions over the next few years will impact our reputation in the rest of the world

Off to read the rest now

[Elendon]

I'm with you OP and YANBU at all. I know people living and working in Hong Kong and in the past week they have been buying sterling and to them it's like money for old rope. People there are incredulous at the result. The opportunity is there and they are entitled to take it. They are British nationals.

Thankfully I have my own exit plan in place. However, I do feel deeply for those who have no options. It feels like an imprisonment. Despair is a legitimate emotion to have post the result. The only way forward is to campaign to get back into Europe. Hopefully the Northern Irish political challenge to the decision will also make a difference.

I never thought I would consider moving back to Northern Ireland, but the intolerance there is mild compared to what England and Wales have now. Horrible to witness.

[purits]

there was another referendum in 1975 and ever since then the Leavers have moaned about that result.

There was a referendum about the EEC, a trading agreement.. There was mention of 'ever greater Europe' but we were lied to told that it would never happen. Then we had the EU and the Single Market forced on us by politicians and big business - we never got a vote on that.
The French and Germans are now getting tough over negotiations. Do you not see that they are not, and never have been, our friends.

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

Brexiters and lady di. ... There is nothing like intellligent argument, is there?

Seriously special have you seen some of the posts on here?

I thought that was quite funny, my dad still goes on about her

And yes i do know not all leavers...but i think you have to read virtually all the posts on this subject with "not all leavers/remainers" playing through your head

[Meripenopause1]

I agree with Piglet. There is a definite whiff of superiority towards those who voted Leave.
So - if people vote in a way that you don't understand they are mad, bad or stupid? Maybe there is something wrong with your understanding.
The Welsh don't know what's good for them? Maybe the Welsh would prefer a functioning steel industry to an EU-funded sports centre.
Young people have been shat on? The message from the vote is that young people don't care.

[funnyandwittyusername]

I'm glad we voted to leave. For years working class people whose pay and conditions deteriorated were told to suck it up, or accused of being racist if they complained about it.

The middle classes loved the EU as it was easier to holiday in Tuscany, and talked about the wonderful diversity as they could pop to the shop where Piotr makes that delicious artisan bread and Magdalena was just so much cheaper with cleaning rates. Their children were in private school so didn't have to put up with the burgeoning class sizes, they weren't seeing local doctors surgeries straining with the extra patients. 15 polish people weren't moving into the house next to them, so everything was fucking great

Now we've voted to leave and middle class jobs/professions are effected it's the worst thing in the world! You lot didn't give a shit when it hit working class interests, and didn't listen. Not nice is it when your life goes tits up over something you didn't want or vote for?

[CancellyMcChequeface]

I voted Leave. I understand why lots of the Remainers are upset about Brexit and some of the effects it will have, but what frustrates me are some of the completely hyperbolic claims that are being made about what Brexiters want.

It isn't a return to 1930s fascism. Comparing Theresa May or Nigel Farage to Hitler is ridiculous, really. Controlling our borders doesn't mean deporting all European citizens who currently live here. It also doesn't mean reducing immigration levels to zero. It's just what it says - control. Britain can invite in as many people as we need with whatever skills we need, from all over the world - including European countries! There are very many countries that have stringent immigration policies and I that wouldn't be eligible to emigrate to. That doesn't make them xenophobic, it makes them sensible.

If you're a Remainer and you completely disagree and think that free movement of people is a great idea, that's fine and this isn't the thread to debate that - my point is that the opposition stance isn't 'deport all the foreigners' or something equally horrible and extremist. A few nasty people making racist comments after the referendum aren't representative of 52% of voters.

As for silly reasons for voting Remain - I had a letter from my MP all about how much she liked European culture and how 'our European friends would be sad' if we chose to leave, so we should stay. That might be true. It's not a political argument. I also think people who voted because they didn't want their holidays didn't become more expensive didn't look at the bigger picture at all. (I've met other Leave voters with stupid reasons for their vote, too! Not trying to pick on Remainers, but someone asked upthread).

[Me2017]

I am an action person. I support remain but as we lost we have to make the best of it. I doubt this month's High Court case will change things.

One reason I've usually been fairly happy in life is I can just move on and make the best of things. Change is always an opportunity even if it's unwelcome. We just have to make the best of it.

Wir schaffen das, as Merkel has said of refugees - "we will manage". We will manage Brexit too.

I am old enough to remember the UK pre EU. TV cameras came to my school before we joined to interview children on our views (the UK had applied but been refused for about 10 years before that in the 60s).

[Elendon]

What Brexiters want and what Brexiters get will be two separate things. Think that May is really concerned about the 'ordinary working class'? Think again.

The middle class wealthy will not be stripped of their wealth and influence, the Conservatives rely on them for their vote. However, they are a fickle lot, and if you hurt them, they will punch back.

[Elendon]

Cancelly Can I ask if you think Trump is a step too far in the Fascism direction?

[Marynary]

I still feel upset about the result and can't quite believe that it will really happen. It seems so incomprehensively stupid to leave. The fact that all my family, friends, colleagues and everyone I know feels the same way is a comfort but I also makes me feel that perhaps I live in a bubble.

[purits]

but it also makes me feel that perhaps I live in a bubble.

Ah, is the message finally getting through?

[Marynary]

So - if people vote in a way that you don't understand they are mad, bad or stupid? Maybe there is something wrong with your understanding.

If people vote in a way that seems stupid then I personally think they are stupid unless they can have an intelligent reason for their vote. I have yet to hear one though. I understand that some people are stupid but was very shocked that this amounts to such a high proportion of the population.

[Marynary]

Ah, is the message finally getting through?

What message would that be? The fact that I only know intelligent people?

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

I understand that some people are stupid but was very shocked that this amounts to such a high proportion of the population.

So all remain voters are highly intelligent and had a list of well studied and very knowledgeable reasons for their vote then?

The snobbery and superiority continues.

[jessica29054]

Stupid people have a vote that counts every bit as much as intelligent people.

Intelligent people hate that.

[purits]

What message would that be?

That you live in a bubble of privilege. You like what the EU has done for you and can't see that that has been achieved at the expense of many, many others.
Luckily we have 'one person, one vote'. Enough people have said "this isn't benefitting me" and voted to leave.

[justgivemeamo]

AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put


Look we are still very much a part of the EU, as in - we cant not be!
We can be very close friends with the EU but just not married to them. Its that simple, it really is.

As for the economics, all the papers I am reading and all the media and information I see on line tells me, that the economic state of Europe is literally in Peril.

German banks are teetering on the edge, Merkel cannot bail them out! Italian banks are a smidgen away from disaster too. Why do you think this is all a good thing to be part of?

I do like and appreciate that you called yourself a Remoaner though.

Its interesting that remoaners look at the chaos of the EU and want to be part of it - Brexiteers look at it and thank the un seen Gods we are going to be free of it all.
I am a Brexiteer and my family is a Rainbow from Europe, literally. My DH is only one third British. My cousins and siblings have all married people from all nationalities over the EU.

[Marynary]

So all remain voters are highly intelligent and had a list of well studied and very knowledgeable reasons for their vote then?

I didn't say that all remain voters were highly intelligent. I just commented on the leave voters.

[wherethefuckisthefuckingtuna]

I've been in the EU my whole life. For me, it's a part of my identity that is being taken from me. And that's largely what I am struggling with.

[justgivemeamo]

Intelligent people hate that

1. people who think of themselves as intelligent rarely are. 2) if they classify themselves as intelligent but still cannot understand another point of view they have mis classified themselves 3) if they cannot grasp the basics of democracy they are not intelligent 4) they themselves cannot understand what intelligence is - if they call people thick and stupid.