To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

ok, let's just focus on the first 2 (although the last one has happened and the third is a fact)

What are your thought?

Bear - I can keep deferring back to Cameron and I can also say I stand by my vote.

time, OK, you can, but it gets a bit tedious if all you can say is that you stand by your vote.

Why can't you offer your opinion on the current state of play?

My assumption that people didn't expect mass deportations is based on polls showing they're not want the vast majority of leavers or remainers want. I don't think people would have voted leave if they thought that could potentially happen.

My opinions on the pound plummeting are that I do not know what the value of the pound should be. I have heard economists say that the pound was overvalued and the Euro is still overvalued, and I don't know what the long term valuation of those currencies should be.

In terms of immigration, I don't have any particular opinion on EU immigration. I think the government are going on about it as a distraction from their lack of any sensible plan about Brexit.

I still think these issues are less important than TTIP and CETA, the treatment of Greece and the potential of a major conflict with Russia.

And I didn't vote because I did not feel we were being given enough information to vote, so this is not an answer from a leaver anyway.

No I think I have just said it the once. With regards to being tedious that would be pot and kettle. Your rhetoric is tell me, tell me, tell me, justify, justify, justify followed by a general slapping down. Not interested in that game thanks, I have better things to do on a Saturday evening.

My response was to Bearbehind by the way incase anyone was in any doubt.

Thanks almond

You comment about immigration being a distraction because the government haven't got a sensible plan is interesting.

When would you like yo see a sensible plan and answers to the concerns you've listed?

time, I'm answering various posters so my comments might sound repetitive but they're directed at different people.

It's clear you're not able to answer my question so I won't ask you again.

Sorry almond I'd completely missed that you didn't vote

I am absolutely furious about it and horrified by the messages coming from the Tory Party conference this week All the leavers here seem to say is that it is about "sovereignty" and nowt to do with immigration. Yeah right. And worrying about being dragged into a war because of our EU membership. If there is a major European war, it won't make a fuckwith's worth of difference if we are in or out in terms of it affecting us. In fact I would go so far to say that the divisiveness caused by this and the sheer xenophobic response from the Govt really goes in the opposite direction re. Cohesiveness within Europe.

There is just so much "set it up to knock it down" going on.

Whose expectation has been "throw every foreigner out tomorrow"? Okay, there are a small percentage of racist guys in this country as there always have been .Most leave voters have never wanted anyone "thrown out" - see polls. In fact I think the % who wanted any EU nationals to remain is similar for leave and remain voters.

I don't expect to get answers to my concerns.

That is the nature of politics and the Media.

TTIP is a set of deals being done with great input from companies and mostly being kept secret from the public.

Negotiations around Russia won't be shared with us. All we can do is listen to politician's rhetoric and hear who it is they want us to dislike and agree to violence against. That gives us an indication of the direction they want us to head in.

Greece is going to be decided between the tenacity of the Greek people and the fate of banks in the EU.

I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist but neither do I expect the events of Brexit, the EU or the UK to be carried out in a clear and transparent manner with a focus on democracy.

guys was supposed to be gits

Bear - leavers don't want to be quizzed might be wearing thin but maybe some can't answer or don't want to answer given the attacks made on previous threads.

IF Nissan need money and IF a detrimental trade deal is achieved then IF government consider the loss of Nissan significant to the UK then money will come from that saved from EU monies paid in. It might not take us forward but it is what I see happening.

Are things going the way I wanted. Well nothing is done yet. If you are asking if I wanted to see a society made comfortable with open racism then categorically no.

What would I like to see. I would like to see the UK setting it's own trade policy in the way of Norway and Iceland. A policy to benefit the Uk and free to negotiate with other countries without the arguing with 27 others. If that means free movement from the EU then I am good with that. I didn't use MY vote in an attempt to stop it.

I would like see a uk free from a disintegrating EU. I don't believe it is strong. I think it may well implode and the fall out will be huge.

Will I get it I don't know but theres my wish list.

wrong you've answered your own question there. I only said the spectrum ranged from 'throw every foreigner out' and you've stated who thinks that.

You might see it as 'set up to knock it down' but that would surely only be the case if Leavers thoughts on where we're at didn't stand up to Remainers questions about them.

Surely if you are happy with what's going on you'd be able to stand up and it wouldn't be possible to knock you down as you'd make a convincing argument.

Bear If someone choses not to respond to your requests to answer certain questions, that does not mean they are not able to, it means they choose not to.

I though I posted earlier:
bear I KNOW HS2 isn't linked to the EU. You're quite patronising

The EU is fighting hard against TTIP. I really don't see this as a an argument to leave. THe UK on its own has much less leverage against it.

thanks boffered I do appreciate you answering.

I guess that's why I can't comprehend the leave vote as you seem happy if we don't seem to 'gain' anything from leaving the EU and that was precisely my reason for voting to Remain ie, there was no benefit to leaving.

If the EU implodes we won't escape the fallout whether we're in or out.

Bear in your 20.00 post you imply that the gov are being inconsistent in saying no EU nationals will be deported. I don't see how this is inconsistent with anything the gov has said, or anything the greater part of the leave vote has said. Disclaimer - not a supporter of the gov, never voted Tory in my life.

bear I KNOW HS2 isn't linked to the EU. You're quite patronising

davros why is it patronising to say that HS2 is not linked to leaving the EU when you brought it up saying we could cancel it now.

If you know leaving the EU doesn't have an impact on whether HS2 goes ahead, what was the relevance of it?

Bear - I wasn't just referring to this thread as well you know. I am perfectly able to answer your question (it's not that difficult) I am choosing not to for the reasons I stated earlier. Have a good evening.

TTIP only exists because of the EU! It isn't fighting against it. It created it. What do you mean? The EU has certainly had to put a brake on TTIP because of massive public opinion against it.

It could well be that we are more at risk of a dubious trade partnership outside of the EU. But that is one of the reasons why I took the position that I should not vote. How can I vote to stay in or our of a federal trading bloc when politicians in my country will not tell me what the alternative is?

wrong, to me it goes back to the spectrum of what people want from immigration controls.

Not deporting anyone certainly isn't going to appease quite a number of people on that spectrum.

TM keeps saying immigration is a priority and to a lot of people that won't equate with no EU nationals being deported when we leave the EU

time I'm not aware we've 'met' on any other thread.

I don't deny I'm like a dog with a bone when it suits me but its because I'm happy to be proved wrong on things but, unless others join in discussions and justify their standpoint, it's not possible.

Saying 'I could answer but chose not to' sounds very like you actually can't answer.