To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

But will those 3.6 million EU citizens have to apply for ILR? Currently £1875 a pop and God knows how much it will be in 2 years time

Maybe they need to start saving now

Bear - I don't think the NE was or is ignorant to the consequences but they voted for leave anyway. Some no doubt for the wrong reasons but some in the belief that for them things would be different outside. Change from within has not been forthcoming and a vote was given to each of us to exercise as we saw fit. Those people who rightly took up their vote used it and lots of them voted to leave. We are now in a very turbulent time with lots of questions and lots of unknowns. Until the negotiation table is open no-one can categorically state whether it was wrong or right. Each of us can only draw on our own experience and knowledge to present our reasons either way. It does seem on MN the majority voted stay and whether that is because some leavers feel they made the wrong decision and don't want to be quizzed on it I don't know but MN does not reflect the majority shown by the vote. I actually think this thread is refreshing as it is a debate rather than a slanging match (for the most part). I also really must disappear for a while now I have been tied to this thread all day!

Lets be honest, an awful lot of the leave vote in the NE was driven by two/three things.

1. The desire to hit out at "that London" because they feel left behind and that they are voiceless. Many people came out and voted that had never voted since Thatcher. The North East has been one of the areas worst hit by austerity and people came out with the intention of hitting out at David Cameron.

Not really to do with the EU.

1. Immigration. Despite having the lowest level of non UK born residents in the country, like the rest of the country people in the North East have believed the rhetoric blaming immigration for the nations ills. As many as 60% of the immigrants in the North East are not from the EU as well, so again not really to do with the EU but to do with perception. About 5% of the North EAst population is non British born btw

Newcastle has the largest level of immigration and 13 %, and voted remain. Sunderland and Hartlepool with their low levels of immigratoon ( 3 and 2.5 % ) voted to leave, and many people have said it was about immigration.

I don't think this was some towering victory for those that have opposed EU membership for a long time rather the leave side lucked out on getting a miriad of groups to vote with them for very different reasons that aren't always legitimate.

boffered, I'm really not trying to lower the the of the thread but I would appreciate it if you could answer my question.

All this, 'Leavers don't want to be quizzed' is wearing a little thin.

They/ you are the reason we're where we are so it's not unreasonable to ask them/ you where they/ you see us going.

You've said you wouldn't change your vote so you're not in the regretters camp.

My wuestion was- Where do you see the money needed to support Nissan, if that's what it comes to, coming from?

My reason for voting Remain has, all along, been because I couldn't see an improvement with any alternative.

If the government just diverts payments into the EU to bribing businesses to stay in the EU then we're no further forward IMO and that's just one example.

It's clear flag wavers like rorty aren't going to answer what is the very reasonable question of 'are things going the way you wanted them to and why', it would just be nice if someone, anyone, did.

^^ Stay in the UK not stay in the EU

Smallfox, those aren't the reasons given by people I know in the North East. There hasn't been a rise in hate crime in the North East, according to both Durham and Northumbria police, so I don't think it is an area that has strong anti immigrant feeling.

Have you seen a poll of survey showing those to be the reasons given by leavers from the North East?

I haven't seen any "regretters" on this thread, I'm not sure they exist outside what the media would have us believe

For the Remainers asking Leavers what was going to happen next and how they felt about it, do you think the average remainer or you yourself could answer similar questions if the situation was reversed?

Would you be able to predict exactly what the EU was going to do about TTIP, exactly how TTIP was going to have an impact on the jobs of people who work in the pharmaceutical industry 2 years from now, six months from now? Would you be able to defend policy on Greece, or allay fears about the German banks?

As fas as I can work out, we don't know much more about what will happen than we did three months ago, so I'm not sure how any leaver (or anyone else) could or would have a particularly informative or informed view on it.

Small - yes in my original post many many pages back now I said similar people hit out as they felt they were left behind and voiceless. If they did that at DC they were misguided. I think more likely they hit out at the EU as they didn't see what it did for them. I think hitting out at "that London" is unfair. Why would the north hit out to get back at London, it's our Capital city too whether we live in it or not. It is however very different to some places here so maybe there is something in what you say but we don't all think of it as that there London with its fancy ways.

Yes Newcastle voted to stay but the others voted leave. I don't agree with those who voted on the grounds of immigration if indeed that was a main factor in the NE I don't know if it was or not.

I have said that I believe it was a feeling of we have been forgotten by EU and people saw money going in with little back in this region.

The leave campaign played dirty some saw through it some did not but equally the remain campaign let the remainers down they didn't campaign here they didn't shout about what the EU did here. If they did those that didn't see through the rhetoric may well have voted differently. I don't know, but we are where we are and until negotiations start nothing is certain good or bad.

They're the reasons given by a lot of people I know in the North East.

I haven't seen any "regretters" on this thread, I'm not sure they exist outside what the media would have us believe

davros if there are no regretters on this thread, or indeed, in existence, why can't anyone offer us their opinion on how things are shaping up?

Bear - I have just seen your latest post to me. I am off for a bit again now but I will come back

almond, of course no one can predict with any certainty what will happen but Remainers can offer their opinion on what they think of developments so far, so why can't Leavers?

It's incredibly frustrating that questions go unanswered, posters use diversion tactics, generic phrases and rhetoric are touted when actually answering a question on what you're supposed to believe in so vehemently would be much the easier option.

Thanks boffered

What developments have there actually been so far?

I'm reading the Guardian and the New Statesman and I don't see that anything concrete has of yet happened.

There's a variety of people giving opinions, as there were before the referendum, but nothing concrete.

There was a spike in hate crime, but the same happened in Scotland after devolution, and then hate crime reduced to lower than previous levels later on. So that isn't really an unexpected event. It's a good reason not to have this kind of referendum in the first place, unless it is absolutely essential.

They/ you are the reason we're where we are so it's not unreasonable to ask them/ you where they/ you see us going

I think that's a bit unfair Bear, we are where we are because of David Cameron. I am really not trying to skirt your question intentionally but I do think that the Tory Conference has been all about EU posturing with a dose of back-tracking thrown in (I actually see that as a positive, the Doctors issue quite rightly caused an outcry, we shouted and they back tracked). I am having difficulty at the moment to see past the political shambles that has unfolded if I'm honest.

If you look at several of the news reports and documentaries made since the vote , the hitting out at London factor is large in the North East. A far bigger factor than the EU.

Or those are the opinions they selected to show.

bear see almondpudding's response above.
As a Londoner, I want us to do far more for the rest of the country, we could cancel HS2 and use some of that money properly, and stop the obsession with what goes on I a small area mostly to the South

A few developments worthy of discussion

• the pound plummeting
• businesses holding off on investment
• the governments focus being on immigration as the overriding factor
• the fact that despite the focus being on immigration, they've just announced they won't actually be deporting any EU migrants
• potential loss of access to the single market
• potential loss of financial passporting
• the Japanese governments report on Brexit and the effect it might have on their businesses

time4chocolate, you can't really keep deferring back to Cameron.

Yes there should never have been a referendum but those who voted out need yo take responsibility for what they chose.

davros, HS2 is not linked to leaving the EU and I'd better my bottom dollar it will go ahead regardless.

Could you give us some thoughts on the areas I've mentioned above that really have happened despite your agreement with almond that nothing's happened.

Surely the vast majority of people were aware it would cause economic upheaval and that immigrants would not be deported. We're (maybe) leaving the EU; we're not backing out of every International human rights convention.

Only the first two of your points are things that have happened.

The others are all opinions, or things that potentially/might happen.

What I didn't expect, whatever the outcome of the referendum, was that millions of people would become the love child of Noam Chomsky and Nostradamus.

almond, that's the problem- you can't say 'surely the vast majority of people were aware of X, Y or Z when they voted Leave' because they never really promised anything (except the £350m and we all know how that ended).

The government have been pushing immigration as the priority and the spectrum of expectation extends as far as 'throw every foreigner out tomorrow.'

Today the government have said they won't be deporting any EU nationals.

They are not even consistent with their own message.

Why wouldn't Leavers have an opinion on that?