To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

Remain got 48% of the votes cast.
Leave got 52% of the votes cast

Before the vote, Leave said that they would not accept a remain vote of less than 55%
but they are happy with a leave vote of 52%

that was based on utter lies

and then the kippers have the gross hypocricy to ask remainers to

"accept the vote"

However don't let that stop you continuing to get the digs in.

(1) Ok ta
(2) I wasn't the only one who interpreted your post that way
(3) I know you're a Remain campaigner, you've said it plenty of times
(4) Or are you? As you said, how do I know you've told the truth?

was grants to the regions arose out of a shared political will within the EU, they offset the lack of political will within the UK to either offset the impact of the loss of manufacturing industries or share the benefits of a thriving services industry focused on London or indeed reinvest the benefits of immigration in those areas most affected. If anything this government is signalling by its actions if not rhetoric that this will intensify. Whilst the money the EU paid out may have been funded by contributions, the prosperity the government has failed to share beyond the south east has arisen from membership of the EU and that looks very likely to be seriously hit if it is sacrificed in the cause of immigration control. Even if this government really does have the will to help the regions, it won't have the tax revenues to do so. And the North Easts problems are certainly not going to be helped by immigration control......

Ta1kinpeece

Not everyone who voted leave is a "kipper", nor did every leave voter say what they regarded as an acceptable percentage and/or turnout before or after the vote.

Not all of the lies and hypocrisy exist on either side of the debate.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/07/brexit-means-we-can-revive-clinical-trials-killed-by-the-eu/ makes an interesting read.....

whatwouldrondo Read another way, your summary says "the democratically elected government of the UK wouldn't provide any regional funding, so the EU decided it had a better policy. Whilst it's great when it's going your way, I fundamentally disagree with the way that undermines UK democracy - just because it does something different from a government you don't like doesn't make it OK, because the next intervention might be something you don't really like - like destroying your fishing industry.

Whilst the money the EU paid out may have been funded by contributions Not may have, was. We paid for it.

But Piglet, you said yourself we only have a poster's word for it that they voted Leave or Remain. So your assertion that you voted Remain and campaigned for it is irrelevant. I don't know why you keep mentioning it.

wasonthelist seriously, where has there been anything tangible that we can look forward to. This is a fast moving thread, I may well have missed something.

EU funding hasn't done much to address this, highlighted from 2104 by inequality briefing -

inequalitybriefing.org/brief/briefing-47-the-poorest-regions-in-the-uk-are-the-poorest-in-northern-europ

Of course, a lot depends on how you cut the figures, but as someone upthread observed, maybe people in Wales want a job, not an EU funded Sports centre.

Scary All the countries you mention, with the exception of the US which by virtue of size makes a free trade area of its own, envy the size and the opportunities that the EU has given the U.K. in terms of economic development and a political alliance with neighbouring countries with similar political values. They all rely heavily on the trade agreements with their neighbours, and have economies reliant on that trade. In the case of Singapore they even have a an economic and political alliance with neighbours consciously modelled on the EU though naturally with Asian characteristics, not to mention the current rising leadership from within one communist st country and one with possibly the most inspiring democrat on earth. You could certainly ask Canada and Australia and New Zealand why they are prioritising trade agreements with the EU ( sorry but yes over Britain) in preference to being at the mercy of near neighbours........

Uneleceted EU crats = 33,000

Unelected UK crats = 440,000

luff democracy

I was thinking this the other day. I've stopped talking about it much but more out of despair really as there seems nothing left to fight for, but the weorld feels colder, harder, grimmer and I haven't moved on.

Was that link in response to my post was?

If so, highlighting the failings of the EU doesn't mean that we will thrive outside.

People have said the remainers should just accept it.

What are they currently doing that shows they haven't accepted it?

Are there similar numbers of them supporting a new party that is the opposite of UKIP?

Teacher, thanks for your perspective on war. It is reassuring.

and then the kippers have the gross hypocricy to ask remainers to

All leave voters were kippers?

Well I'm dreading the next general election then as every other party will be virtually wiped out what with 17 million kippers about.

My lovely local labour MP certainly would.

was oh yes the fishing industry where the EU set a policy to protect local fishing industries within the context of a common fisheries policy , devolving the granting of licenses to member governments. Our government sold them to the highest bidder ensuring our seas were fished by factory ships, in some cases from Spain and Holland, and then deflected the blame onto the EU. Do you see a pattern? I don't think the EU was perfect but the government is going to run out of scapegoats once the EU is gone and our crappy not fit for purpose immigration controls are in place and damaging business, science, technology and academia even more than they already do when applied to non EU immigration...... Personally I am deeply committed to the democratic principle of checks and balances and in the EU we had a check and balance and I fear we are going to mourn its loss deeply.

Does any one wonder how the rest of the world, for example, the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, cope without being in the EU? Are these countries lacking in democracy? Are they incapable of making rational decisions? Do they manage their own affairs effectively in the world and at home? If they manage it, why can't we? Do we really need Eurocrats (they do exist) to make our decisions for us? Do we really think that a decision taken that will suit rural Latvia will also suit rural Cornwall, because that is in effect what we have. There is no 'give' in the ever closer union or the ratchet of acquis communautaire. That is what people don't understand, or choose to ignore.

Precisely. Unfortunately it is clear that Europe's political elite are still pressing on with their one-size-fits all solutions. Their logic seems to go: if the theory doesn't fit the people then the people must fit the theory. I am not at all keen on Theresa May's recent pronouncements, but I worry much more that the whole EU project will end in tears due to Merkel, Hollande, Junker et al.

In the meantime, despite having a donkey of a PM, life goes on in NZ pretty fine. Every now and again someone suggests federating with Australia and they get laughed off. If a law needs changing, it can be changed. If we don't want immigration - and we take in proportionally more than most EU countries - we can stop it if we choose, therefore there is nothing like the racial tension that exists in the EU.

Independence: well worth a try.

There are plenty of countries who struggling economically and have no democracy outside of the EU too.
Whereas NONE of the countries inside of the EU aren't a democracy and none have what would be called 'poor' countries (or whatever the word is now).

There are some argument about not being in the EU, but that's a really crap one IMO.

I have to say, I don't understand.
I haven't heard that many people saying that we ignore the vote. That would be undemocratic.
I can hear lots of people saying that they are VERY unhappy with TM decisions that have nothing to do with Brexit. Brexit was about going out of the EU, not about controlling immigration, not about telling that non British citizens aren't allowed to give guidance to the government 'because they aren't british'. Not about grammar schools or a lot of other decisions that TM is taking 'under the name of Brexit' but that have nothing to do about Brexit.

So why is it that people aren't allowed to voice their time discontent about all those measures? You might well be a Leaver and be against all that because there is no relation between them. It's not being undemocratic not to automatically accept any decision made NY the PM.

Scientists - roll up! The Frances Crick Institute has just been completed and a major immunology research centre is in the pipeline at the Royal Free Hospital.

Scared I don't think Romania makes it onto the rich list by any means, and Greece has been sent backwards towards LEDC status by the actions of the Eurogroup. Italy is a basket case as well.

Italy has had a technocrat foisted on them and even now Spain has no government, and Belgium went without one for over a year. I think the EU is profoundly undemocratic with the acquis, but somehow, no-one ever wants to discuss how the EU as an entity abrogates powers to itself.

If the EU was the answer to life, the universe and everything (and everyone knows that that is chocolate), then the whole world would be clamouring to be members. They aren't.

Trouble is the majority voted out. It happened and we now have to live with the consequences. if we don't then democracy doesn't exist and I for one am more frightened of that. i didn't want this but it happened. All things will pass.

Bearbehind Sunderland voted out by over 60%. Will Nissan down tools and go elsewhere I don't believe so, will they freeze investment in the plant yes they will and have already announced it. Nissan is a big NE employer but it does not replace the mining industry, ship building industry or steel industry by a long shot.

What would Ron do - As a region there was a 58% leave majority in the NE which was higher than the SE, SW and obviously London itself so compared to the NE as a percentage the majority wasn't in the South. With regard to zenaphobic and divisive grammer schools to my knowledge there are zero state grammer schools in the NE and I certainly don't want a move back to them. I think you are agreeing with me that a disenfranchised feeling may have influenced how people voted in this region? But whatever the EU's commitment was to regional development in this area and to the people living in it, it was not evident.

I don't think everything will be rosy and lovely as we move towards leaving and i am disgusted by some of the racist comments posters on MN have said they have experienced. I do still think change within EU was needed. We were not getting it from within so the vote swung to out.

What? Sir Paul Nurse, at the head of the Crick Institute, is another leading scientist highlighting the damaging effect of Brexit on UK Science, including the Crick Institute. European collaboration and knowledge and technological networks facilitating worldwide collaboration are regarded as the powerhouse of scientific and technological progress, and the UK was in the lead but are now already being sidelined.

Indeed pre June the Crick Institute itself was advertising plenty of entry level jobs for young postgrad pre PhD entrants to get research experience, now like all entry level opportunities in this country few opportunities are being advertised. The ones that are, are now going to PhDs so even with firsts masters grads are going to have to go overseas to get the research experience, and stay there for PhD. The Crick institute was great news, would it have happened in London with foreknowledge of Brexit? No.