To not have moved on from the referendum result?

[Niamer]

Hi. I am a remoaner. I have bored myself with talking about it online and with a couple of likeminded friends.
I was have never been political, was pretty disengaged before the referendum but a 100% gut-feeling kind of a remainer and really expected the vote to go our way.

Felt devastated at the result; I am a believer in working closely with our neighbours, have lived in other Eu countries, have friends here from other EU countries who feel unwelcome etc etc. AND all the attachment to Europe stuff aside, it just seemed a far safer economic option to stay put. Why go for a bumpy ride when you don't even like where you're going? Also felt really cheated when people's reasons for leaving became clear.
I am amazed that some Remainers have just gone quiet and got weary of it all. As far as Leave voters, there has been plenty of "suck it up" comments and total quiet from others. It hasn't been long but time is not healing for me. In fact the Tory conference seemed to take the grimness up a notch. Still so upset and wanting to protest (and have done in every way that I can think of)

I am currently in groups with staunch Remainers like myself, so I know how they are feeling. Outside of that, it isn't an easy topic to discuss. Remainers, Leavers, non-voters, please could you tell me where you're at? TIA

Most of us will have been in hotels abroad where they keep or copy your passport and must tell police who has arrived.

We could do with a bit more checking up around here - we are the London borough with more beds in sheds than anywhere in the UK and the beds in sheds are full of criminals who have no right to be here unfortunately.

I certainly suppot our invervening less often abroad particularly in the Middle East. We need to leave people to sort it out between them over there but make sure everyone in the UK obeys our laws.

I was and still am a remainer. However I wouldn't be able to vote again if there was another referendum as I have already left the UK .

You're entitled to howl at the moon if you do wish Mitzy but what you actually want us to rerun the referendum until us thick, knuckle dragging, Xenophobes vote the 'right' way. That is what I object to.
As for what will Brexit look like. The EU looks nothing like what the EEC we voted for in 1975 and you have no idea what the EU will look like in 5 years so why do you expect the leavers to have a crystal ball?

"I disliked the EU long before austerity. And the undercutting of wages by allowing in Accession Country people was Tony Blair's doing."

Then why the silly comments about Archibald, Jocasta, ballet lessons and the like?

that there is no point

If you take that view, there's no point to a Remainer replying to a Leaver either. We don't agree, end of. I could do that too - "There's no point, I'll just be told to suck it up and get the fuck over it, I'm so oppressed..." The Internet would collapse. Either you have an opinion to express, in which case you are not being stopped from expressing it here, or you don't have an opinion to express.

like to live in the rest of the country where wages are being held down, schools can't cope and there are more temporary classrooms than real ones, where you've gone from getting a Drs appt today and now it's a 2 wk wait

I do live "in the rest of the country" whatever that means. As has been pointed out on a million other threads, how much of this is because of the EU rather than our own government? Oh, maybe now I'll weep "There's no point! Nobody has listened to all those posts! Therefore I'm being silenced!".

Lynnm63 the thing is, some of us Remainers do live in other parts of the country and have seen first hand how tough life is. We're not all sitting round London dinner party tables.

Where we differ, I suspect, is that come the referendum, Remainers in those situations tended to see failing and stretched services and spiralling property/rental prices as the fault of years of government policies and spending cuts, not as a direct result of membership of the EU.

Queenliz you'd do well to show that image to some of your Leave chums.

the rest of the country where wages are being held down, schools can't cope and there are more temporary classrooms than real ones, where you've gone from getting a Drs appt today and now it's a 2 wk wait. Where wages have fallen but rents and house prices have risen as scores of new houses are bought to let rather.

People believe that schools and surgeries are underfunded and that there hasn't been investment in infrastructure, and they believe that some businesses exploit workers.

The problem is the lack of a clear, evidence based argument to link this to EU membership and to show how leaving the EU will improve the situation.

So leaving the EU is supposed to enable us to both buy less cheap Steel from China and trade more with China.

There is also the issue that many pro Leave areas have almost no immigrants.

All the liberal elite with their Polish plumbers, Portuguese baristas and Lithuanian au pairs found free movement was great as their ball cock was fixed cheaper and Tarquin and Tabitha were looked after more cheaply. Outside of Islington in the real world free movement wasn't so great with wages cut and rents rising.

Tedioius bloody stereotypes. I'm in Glasgow, yeah it's teeming with the liberal elite here.

Still find that when I come across some entitled dickhead, I mutter to myself "bet you voted Leave". I know plenty of reasonable people who voted Leave for sensible (although misguided) reasons. I grudgingly respect that. But I have come across more dickheads than reasonable folk.

The EU looks nothing like what the EEC we voted for in 1975 and you have no idea what the EU will look like in 5 years so why do you expect the leavers to have a crystal ball.

Not so much a crystal ball, more a practical and realistic idea of what you want to happen next that can be translated into policy and action.

48% is the wrong figure. We only know that 48.1% of those who exercised their right to vote, voted to remain as a EU member.

Then 52% is also the wrong figure.

If you have benefitted from EU and some have you can have no idea what it's like to live in the rest of the country
Thank you for posting Lynn despite your blood pressure; I have no wish to shout you down.
I also sympathise with the problems you list, some of which I have experience of.
Those problems are not the fault of the EU and each and everyone has benefitted from EU citizenship. Medical research, clean beaches, workers'rights... I am sure you have heard them all by now. It isn't an exclusive club- it's there in all our lives.

I'm not saying it's ALL the fault of the EU and I agree successive govts have 'blamed' the EU for their own failings but if I object to what my govt does I can vote them out. It doesn't matter how much I object to Junker, Tusk or the other 1000 I can't name I'm stuck with them.
You'd think the EU was some sort of Utopia to listen to some remainers. I feel the EU have left us rather than the other way around.

YY Mitzy being in a democratic doesn't you should just shut.

Being in a democratic means that yoou should accept the vote, that by a small majority, people have said they wanted OUT of the EU.
What that vote has never said is what kind of 'OUT of the EU' it was and people can and should argue loud and clear as to what it should be, not just accept whatever TM is saying.
That vote has NEVER been about changing the general internal politics for the country, introducing grammar school, etc etc.

What I do NOT agree with is the way TM is using the referendum to say 'People have voted OUT because xx so I will do yy' because she HAS NO IDEA about that.
That's not what people has voted for and no one has given her a mandate to do that.
Actually she doesn't even have a mandate to a hard or a soft Brexit because there was nothing about that in the vote.

So on that ground, it is more than democratic to discuss and argue about whatever policies she wants a to implement (eg about immigration because as has been said often, lots of people voted OUT but had no issue about immigration for example) Or to discuss whether Brexit should soft or hard etc...

We should have massive discussion in the political arena aboout what sort of Brexit we want as a country. This should involve ALL parties (because it's not because you are a Torie or a labour voter that you have voted OUT - or IN). Proposals should be put to the Parliament for discussion and approval.
Instead we have a PM who is acting like a despite/dictator and is refusing to ion love anyone in her decisions, incl the MPs.

If the PM has forgotten what a democracy is, then as the population, we should be there to remind her.
And that start by discussing these issues instead of shutting them down by saying 'Just accept the vote'.

Our MEPs are elected and have a say in how the show is run. Haven't got the stats to hand, but I believe things usually go our way.

We had workers right before the EU, Dagenham strike happened in the 60's and Barbara Castle was in the UK govt. All before Ted Heath lied to get us to vote to remain in '75. if the uk govt decided to rip up 50 years of workers right do you think we'd all sit by and wring our hands or need some Eurocrats to stand up for us?

Eurosceptic remainer here. Everyone else in my family voted to leave, so I am biting my tongue a lot. The only silver lining is that Britain will be able to cock everything up without help from the EU. We cant blame pesky Brussels now! It will be interesting to see how Europe develops without us. It does feel like a giant experiment - I just wish it was not at the expense of my life and my children's.

Bearbehind: But my whole point is piglet, no Leaver has attempted to reassure the Remainers on this thread.

Actually I did on the 2nd page of the thread, but my post was almost universally ignored.

As I understand it there are two main sources of angst for Remainers. One is philosophical. One is economical.

Philosophically they perceive those who voted Leave to be immoral, bad, stupid, short-sighted, and/or racist. That the Leave vote won the majority of the vote is therefore deeply troubling and alienating. I linked to a Radio 4 broadcast which is the best thing I have heard which would reassure Remainers that many Leave voters are not any of these things. It's only 15 minutes long. I'll link to it again....

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p041v6r7

Economically we are in very early days. However there have been many reports to indicate that so far things are not just ok, but we are doing well.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/04/britain-fastest-growing-g7-economy-imf-international-monetary-fund-brexit-vote

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/21/post-referendum-gloom-fears-confounded-economic-evidence

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/05/bank-of-england-too-pessimistic-brexit-vote-deputy-governor-ben-broadbent

Of course the long term future for our economy outside the EU is not yet known. However we didn't know what the long term future was INSIDE the EU either. Only time will tell.

Merry, where was 52% mentioned?

All the liberal elite with their Polish plumbers, Portuguese baristas and Lithuanian au pairs found free movement was great as their ball cock was fixed cheaper and Tarquin and Tabitha were looked after more cheaply. Outside of Islington in the real world free movement wasn't so great with wages cut and rents rising.

Some of us don't have Polish plumbers, Portuguese baristas or Lithuanian au pairs. Some of us don't have children called Tabitha and Tarquin and live 300 miles from Islington, and still voted to remain. Imagine that! However some of us have parents in residential care with end stage Alzheimer's, and are secure in the knowledge that he is looked after kindly and respectfully by the Slovakian carers, or we live near fields of cauliflowers and daffodils being picked by people from Lithuania and Bulgaria because otherwise they they'd rot in the fields. No other bugger will pick them, and they don't cause anyone any harm, unless you count the trauma of hearing a different language when you're in Tesco's.

Who is going to do these jobs?

What I do NOT agree with is the way TM is using the referendum to say 'People have voted OUT because xx so I will do yy' because she HAS NO IDEA about that.
That's not what people has voted for and no one has given her a mandate to do that.
Actually she doesn't even have a mandate to a hard or a soft Brexit because there was nothing about that in the vote
yes! GRRRR.

Actually if I had voted Leave for economic rather than xenophobic/immigration related reasons as so many MNers have, I reckon I'd have even more reason than the Remainers for being pretty pissed off with TM and this sudden "the people have spoken, it's clearly all about immigration, I have a mandate to put it front and centre" lurch that seems to have taken place at this week's conference. Because it's misrepresenting the reason why so many voted Leave and giving credence to the view held by the more narrow-minded Remainers that it was all about stopping Johnny Foreigner getting in.

So if she has no mandate for hard, nor for soft, but the electorate voted for out....what do you suggest she does?

For the avoidance of doubt in that hideously constructed sentence, I was alluding to many MNers voting Leave for economic reasons.