AIBU to think this isn't what happens in a normal relationship?

[Willdrama]

"D"P and I have one child together and one on the way. We live in a house that we moved to earlier this year. The mortgage is solely in his name and the house that was sold to buy this one was bought before he met me.

I gave up my job when I was on maternity leave with DS1. This was with DPs full agreement after we worked out childcare compared to salary. DP earns approximately 3 times what I did.

The plan is that I register as a childminder and will start taking children after DC2 is old enough that I feel ready. The discussed plan then is that we will use my income to overpay on the mortgage so we can be mortgage free sooner or move to a bigger house with more deposit. So although I'm not contributing now, I will be.

I found out that DP had a will made through his company (law firm) that in the event of his death splits the house between me and DC if he died. I was shocked as I only found out about the will months later, he had no intention of telling me and maintains it was done "as a training exercise" with a trainee.

I said that I was really upset as he is basically saying that he doesn't trust me with the house and that most couples would leave it to each other. Also if I'd paid half the mortgage through overpayment the half he "left" me wouldn't be inherited anyway I'd have paid for it and so he had basically cut me out by leaving his half to the DC. I said I was really hurt that he was basically saying he didn't trust me to ensure DC were financially ok if he died.

His response was "if I died tomorrow, you might meet someone else and get married then if you die they inherit all MY stuff"

I said he was basically proving my point and he said I'm twisting it.

Its not a normal way to think of your supposed partner is it? Aibu?

No trust = no equal relationship.
Do you want to be with such a man?

JacketPotayto Surely if he dies then YOUR will would be altered to make sure that everything goes to your children and not a new husband. It doesn't automatically follow that by remarrying you would be leaving his assets to another partner. What happens if he dies and your children demand their share of his estate? Could you be forced to sell your home? I don't know how this works

Surely if she doesn't currently have a will, it is unlikely she will 'get round' to altering hers, his will should state that she can live in it till her death. Rather than be sold by their kids on a whim. As a lawyer it would be nice ifthat was put in.

B

I also agree with your DH although yes he should have discussed it first.

My father divorced my mother and moved his OW into the family home. They married. He died and left the house to her. He didn't think of his kids. It's all hers now. My mother is livid that everything he worked for goes to her and her kids.

Me and my partner are not married, we have two kids. We live in my house. My life insurance is split between the kids and partner. The house is also split in the will. You just never know what might crop up in the future.

Buck3t a clause about enforced sales is included in my parent's will and when we asked to do our wills that way our solicitor included it 'as standard'.

I wouldn't have an issue with the will, I would choose to do that myself. My issue would be that you've given up your earning potential to look after the dcs, then paying off his mortgage and you aren't married or on the deeds of the house. If you were on the deeds or married you'd own half the house so his will would have his half divided up thus giving you more security. (As I understand it with no legal training).

The will thing is complicated but if you inherit everything and remarry and your new spouse survives you the house could easily pass to the spouse and on to their children. I've seen it happen tons of times. I was a lucky beneficiary when my gran, a second wife died. My mum's half sister fell out with us for a while.

Usually when a property (or half) is left to DC it gives the remaining resident the right to sell and but another as long as the proceeds up with the DC. Doesn't limit flexibility *Sommerville^ Pre nups in this country are virtually useless. Gift the money/property to your children before marriage but enable you to stay there.

DP and I have split now but when we were together all my assets were left to DC with him as one of 2 trustees.

I think it's sensible and totally agree with his point about protecting the DC int he event of new partners etc.

Although pre-nups are only advisory there is good precedent since 2010 of courts enforcing them as long as certain criteria are met. I've taken a lot of legal advice on this and in my case (I have children and my fiancé doesn't - plus he has assets of his own) this is a better route than tying assets up in trusts.
Whether people choose a route of pre-nup, trust, or just not marrying again, the point is that there are various ways of protecting the assets of a first marriage for the children of that marriage after the needs have been met of the surviving spouse.
But meeting that surviving spouse's financial need should be top priority, as their (my) earning potential dropped dramatically through taking care of a terminally ill spouse/suddenly becoming a lone parent/dealing with grief in myself and children, etc.

DH and I own our house a joint tenants- if one of us dies the other becomes the sole owner. However, I have left 80% of my death in service payment (equivalent to about half the value of our house) to our DD for the same reason as your DH.

And above I meant marriage or relationship-with-children.
OP is taking care of their DC, enabling her DP to remain in full time work, building his career and not even paying for childcare, let alone not having to say no to business trips/late nights to get home for kids after the nanny leaves or nursery finishes.

Does the will actually split the house between you and the children immediately he dies? A normal approach would be to give you, say, half the house and a life interest in the other half with it passing to the children when you die. That way you would not need to sell the house when he dies nor would there be anything to stop you moving if you wished. It would, however, guarantee that your children will inherit half the estate between them regardless of what you do after he dies - marry someone else, have more children or whatever. I can understand why you think of it as a trust issue but there are many ways it could go wrong despite your best intentions if he didn't make his will like this. He is absolutely right - if he died tomorrow leaving the entire estate to you, you then met someone else, married them and died the day after the wedding before you had a chance to make a new will, most, possibly all, of his estate would go to your new husband. Your children would be left with a significantly reduced inheritance and possibly with no inheritance at all. In my view his will is entirely sensible provided it gives you a life interest in the children's share. Many couples have wills like this.

Whether he should have told you about the will is another matter. I would discuss such matters with my wife but all relationships are different.

OP it's like your partner doesn't trust you to have your children's best interests at heart.

It does happen though. Widow/ers do sometimes remarry and for whatever reasons do not get around to making formal provisions for the children. It happens.

Or things can happen irrespective of someone's good intentions. They might make bad or unfortunate choices which may deplete those assets. The now dead partner of course not being around to have any 'say' or 'control' over such things.

All sounds hypothetical but some people like to think about the what ifs. Like others, I see no real issue in a parent guaranteeing these matters by direct inheritance. But the lack of discussion seems more of an issue.

We've both done it but we decided that was what we both wanted. We will have life long interests in the house though, so the kids can't kick us out.

If a couple has so much money that they will definitely be leaving an inheritance of at least the value of half the house to their DC I could understand the 50/50 with life interest.

But that is far from the reality for most couples. Even where there is insurance that pays off the mortgage in the event of the owner of the house dying young, there is still unlikely to be enough money left for 50% of it to be left for DC after the surviving one in the couple has downsized to release money for retirement, had to go into a care home for end of life care, etc...

A SAHM who loses their partner and the father of their children has to somehow deal with the grief well enough to both put their children first and build a career. And not many high- paying careers are an option for a lone parent (to children with complex emotional needs due to losing one parent and are therefore very clingy to the surviving parent) who can therefore only work 9-3 each day term time only. Oh, and do that work on 3 hours sleep a night due to their children's night terrors from their grief. They're not exactly likely to then be able to earn enough to provide for their children's day to day needs and build up a decent pension pot.

The fact that he has done this without any discussion with you would be a massive problem for me.

You are incredibly vulnerable not being on the deeds or mortgage. He can cut you out in an instant.

I don't think his solution is a good one. I think there are inheritance tax implications and it could get very complicated if you or one of the children want to move and release their equity when the others don't.

There is a lack of equality in your relationship. That needs addressing.

You are incredibly vulnerable - no marriage, no house, no job.

Tell him his child could marry someone, divorce, and then that person could get their hands on what he very clearly thinks of as HIS stuff. Doubt it will make a difference though.

I would not be in a relationship with someone so uncommitted to me. Different if this was a second relationship with children of a first marriage he wants to protect but it isn't. He doesn't see why you should have any interest in his property but at the same time is willing to take your money to pay the mortgage.

Don't overpay his mortgage if you are not on it. He is thinking about what will suit him best as an individual. You should start doing the same.

Personally in a will, obviously in the event of my death, I'd want the house to be my husband's (if we end up getting a house one day), as the mortgage would be in both our names anyway. Then put in the event of my husbands death, or being unable to care for himself, it is to be left to our children.
However if we split and had to divide our assets, I'd hope we could come to a mutual agreement where we both benefit.

It's a completely normal set up in many countries, where you are not allowed to "disinherit" your kids, i.e. You have to make immediate provision for them rather than leaving the surviving spouse to do so.

Regarding the will, I think he is being sensible.

Honestly wills become very complicated when people blend families. And it's definitely something that should be thought about. He wants to ensure if he dies his kids will always have something.

However I really think you need to reassess the whole situation. I am always shocked by women who give up work, don't get married and don't have their name on their home.

You are in an incredibly vulnerable position. That needs sorting.

When you say I will register as a childminder, do you have a background in childcare? How long will it take before you have some financial independence?

I wouldn't have an issue with the will point from a 'non trust' point of view (although I would be mad about him not discussing with me first) as long as I had a life interest in the house. I would be concerned that it might mean inheritance tax was payable on my children's share which might mean having to sell up to pay the bill (although I don't know if a life interest delays the tax). I'd also be concerned about the extent it restricts my ability to move/borrow in the future - life changes.

However, can I add my voice to the people saying you are in an incredibly vulnerable position OP. The will is really the least of your worries. What no one seems to have mentioned so far (unless I've missed something) if that if you are a childminder and you and your DP split up and you don't end up with the ability to stay in the house then you lose your livelihood together with the house. You'll also have no right to any assets in your DP's name and basically no chance of forcing anything but child support off him (no spousal maintenance for example, regardless of how much he earns). Basically you'd be starting from scratch with the assets that are in your name plus whatever he ends up paying in child maintenance. You'll also probably end up with whatever debts are in your name so be careful about that.

Your husband is a lawyer. He knows the position you are in being not married and on the deeds. He is perfectly capable of arranging the necessary paperwork to ensure your position isn't so precarious (including ring-fencing any investment he made before he met you if necessary) even if he doesn't believe in marriage for some reason. If he won't let you be added then you need to question his intentions.

You should be organising stuff together but I wish my mother had left something to me and my sisters instead of everything to our dad to pass on to us at his death. There's the money but also her jewellery and possessions that we will probably never inherit. I'm not sure she realised how much things could change in her absence.

Also you should get a share in the house.

Even where there is insurance that pays off the mortgage in the event of the owner of the house dying young, there is still unlikely to be enough money left for 50% of it to be left for DC after the surviving one in the couple has downsized to release money for retirement, had to go into a care home for end of life care, etc...

It obviously depends on the value of the house but 50% of an average house would give the surviving partner in excess of £100k equity. Whether that is enough is a matter of opinion. However, if the surviving partner only has a life interest in half the property they must ensure that share is preserved for the children. The LA cannot take it into account for care funding purposes.

I don't think his solution is a good one. I think there are inheritance tax implications and it could get very complicated if you or one of the children want to move and release their equity when the others don't

There are no inheritance tax implications on his estate. Giving the OP a life interest in half the estate will, however, ensure that it does not form part of her estate and therefore will not be subject to inheritance tax when she dies. Another reason this is a good idea.

If the OP has a life interest it will not get at all complicated when she wants to move. As long as the children's half of the estate remains intact she can do what she wants. As for the children moving, they have no access to their half of the estate until the OP dies so no issue there.

Thanks for the clarification prh - so the life interest attaches to the value rather than the particular property i.e. you can move but you need to preserve the value so you shouldn't downsize and spend the difference on cream eggs [although how are they going to stop you]?

How does the life interest work in relation to inheritance tax? Does it mean no inheritance tax is payable at all on half the estate or is it that inheritance tax is payable when the surviving spouse dies but on the value of the property on death or the first spouse? If it's not payable at all, why isn't everyone doing this?

so the life interest attaches to the value rather than the particular property i.e. you can move but you need to preserve the value so you shouldn't downsize and spend the difference on cream eggs [although how are they going to stop you]?

That is correct. You need to preserve the value of the children's half of the estate. So you can spend your half on cream eggs as long as the children's half remained intact. Note that you aren't expected to shield the children from variations in property values - if the value of the inherited property drops by 50% the children are still only entitled to 50% of the reduced value. Note also that if you sell the property and invest the children's portion you are entitled to any income from that investment. In terms of enforcement, the will should appoint trustees to protect the children's interests. You would not be able to dip into the children's portion without their consent. Indeed, you would need their consent to downsize or move to another property even if you weren't dipping into the children's share, although they would only be able to withhold consent if you were damaging the children's interests

How does the life interest work in relation to inheritance tax

If we assume we are dealing with an unmarried couple and the first partner to die owns the property, the whole estate is assessed for inheritance tax when they die. The portion that goes to the surviving partner will then form part of their estate so more inheritance tax may have to be paid when they die. However, when the surviving partner dies there will be no inheritance tax on the portion left to the children as it does not form part of the surviving partner's estate.

This is less relevant for married couples or couples in a civil partnership. For them, anything left to the surviving partner is not subject to inheritance tax, any unused portion of the nil-rate band can be transferred to the surviving partner and there is a special allowance for the main residence. Depending on the value of the estate it may make more sense in inheritance tax terms for the first partner to die to leave their entire estate to the surviving partner.

That probably isn't entirely clear! Apologies for that. Inheritance tax planning is complicated. When making a will you need proper advice. However, for many unmarried couples giving the surviving partner a life interest in half the property may be the best way of maximising the children's inheritance.