To be fed up of comparisons with 1930s Germany in U.K. politics?

[jessica29054]

Surely a better and far less potentially offensive comparison is the 1980s?

Labour in disarray, therefore weak opposition, and a female PM of course.

Comparisons with the rise of the extreme far right in Germany have little place. The BNP are the equivalent to Hitler and his party and thankfully have little mainstream support.

If Corbyn and the National Socialists Labour were running the country then the comparisons to 1930s Germany would be acceptable considering the recent witch hunt against Jews in and by his party. Otherwise the comparisons are pretty offensive and completely off the mark.

Yes, Wheresquirrel, full points for the whataboutery. Don't look at the nasty party and its leader, look at the opposition.

Maud -
Carl Davidson’s series on “Trotsky’s Heritage” in the Guardian is a consistent whitewash of Stalin’s crimes against the workers movement in an attempt to make a case for the Stalinist policies of “socialism in one country,” “peaceful coexistence,” “two-stage revolution,” etc.

This from Malcolm Muggeridge's biographer Ian Hunter:
"Muggeridge had been Moscow correspondent for the Manchester Guardian during the early 1930s, and had written articles about the Ukrainian famine, which according to Muggeridge’s first biographer, Ian Hunter, had eventually cost him his job.
“He was sacked, then vilified, slandered, and abused,” wrote Hunter, “not least in the pages of the Manchester Guardian, whose sympathy to what was called ‘the great Soviet experiment’ was de rigeur.”
There is more in Robert Conquest's books about the Soviet Union which I'll have to get back to you about as I don't have them here.

This thread has gone bonkers and noone seems to read past posts but jump in and post things that have been discussed pages ago.

Can't be arsed anymore.

Wearedoomed17

I didn't say I was moving to Ireland to escape racism or injustice. I said I would prefer to live in a European country where there is not a government policy that all foreign workers have to go on a database and it's very possible they'll be asked to leave soon.

I would obviously rather live in an independent Scotland, but Ireland is my next best bet. Yes, I don't like their stance on abortion, but you can't have everything. I would personally rather live in Ireland/France/Germany/Bulgaria/Spain or any of the Scandinavian Countries and not the vision of Britain Theresa May is pushing.

MaudGonneMad Thu 06-Oct-16 17:19:26

Really, you're embarrassing yourself by displaying your ignorance if you're pinning the current state of abortion laws in Northern Ireland on the Catholic Church. Do you know anything at all about this place that you're pontificating about?

I see what you did there.

Wearedoomed: rather than saying "I don't know how often I have to repeat", I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you hadn't seen my comment about whether - and just as importantly - when Scotland might have to adopt the Euro. It is not a given that we would immediately (or ever) have to use it.

I don't think the Scottish government is afraid of having to apply for EU membership if it has to - but it does have the option of joining EFTA in the interim.

And to address your comment about being a "tiny state", we would in fact be a similar size to Denmark & Finland (those well known financial basket cases, incapable of operating as independent countries ) There would be 10 countries smaller than Scotland; the majority, significantly so.

Since Ireland has already been mentioned in this thread, I wonder how many Irish would like to have their country referred to as "a tiny state"

And I was an adult in the 80s. And just because racism was worse then (and frequently institutional), doesn't mean we should accept casual racism today. It certainly doesn't feel "casual" to those on the receiving end

We came to the UK in the 60s to escape institutional racism.

Slipping back into something that people know is wrong is arguably worse and more worrying than not knowing that it's wrong in the first place.

Control over immigration is not putting a stop to immigration

No one who is legally here is being kicked out and the government has said that eu migrants are not being forced out but agree more needs to be done to help support eu migrants workers so they are lot feeling insecure and all racism needs to be dealt with

UKIP's poster was condemned by all other parties and the leave campaign and some within his party and many supporting the leave vote it was disgusting

I really think you need to look back on the 70's NF marches were common place and they had a lot of support area there were no go areas for black and Asian people

This stretch of truths and twisting statement helps no one and the comparisons are another form of creating fear. We need people to feel as though people are on their side and authorities are on their side they certianly were not on the 70's. Are you from an ethnic minority family ?

I really think you need to look back on the 70's marches were common place and they had a lot of support area there were no go areas for black and Asian people

And that's exactly what we could go back to now that racism is legitimised by mainstream politics. There's been an explosion of racism in a few short months - who's to say where it will lead.

It's not true that eu migrants are not being forced out - May has said that foreign doctors are only here for an interim period until more British doctors are trained. She backtracked after outcry, but then only said that it didn't mean that all foreign doctors would be asked to leave - that decision was up to individual hospitals.

And many are leaving voluntarily either because Brexit has changed their prospects or because they fear for their future here.

Of course leaving is going to change things will doctors need to leave that hasn't been said and its down to individual hospitals. Many may not want to stay many are waiting to see how things work out

Is there anything wrong with training more people who live here of course not just the NHS needs to make changes (that is a seperate issue)

And it was backtracked on and further explained (though looks as though they could have been testing the waters) we need more doctors

Gloria - an explosion in racism!!
The fact that TM back tracked on the Doctors issue due to an outcry - is that a bad thing? Isn't that a positive example of people having a say and forcing a change?

Anti semticism appears to be an acceptable from of dinner party chit chat where I live. I was in a restaurant having lunch with DH and the people at the next table went off on one about why Jewish people invented the strange rule about eating fish in Friday. I wanted to explain about Medieval meat rationing / The Pope etc but I was too polite to gatecrash their conversation. There's been other instances as well but I won't go into them. How has this happened?

Anti semticism appears to be an acceptable from of dinner party chit chat where I live.

It is on the rise here to. Yet some seem to think it isn't an issue.

The antisemitism I'm aware of has been driven by the left, not the right.

It's easy to forget that the UK is incredibly liberal in its immigration rules and the way we treat foreigners. Many other countries, for example, require citizens to have and carry ID cards, which clearly indicate nationality.

The antisemitism I'm aware of has been driven by the left, not the right.

It is being brushed under the carpet by the left, certainly.

The nasty party will make sure foreigners want to leave. It's started already. You're not "homegrown", you don't balance our quota books, here's a gentle nudge. Well done. The British sense of fair play, meritocracy and all that bullocks.

"The way we treat foreigners" oh, whoopy, it's not as bad as other places yet, you don't need an ID on you.

And, by the way, the Tories have been saying openly that "potentially sending all EU workers back" is their bargaining chip when negotiating with Europe. Which means that if they don't get what they want they can and probably will just terminate the visas of all EU nationals.

The Tories don't want to get to that stage though because instead they're going to create a climate where EU nationals don't want to stay and are going home of their own volition. That way, they can blame someone else for it.

Has there been an official reason why these numbers of foreign workers need to be produced?

We all know the somewhat sinister implications but was a reason given?

Will companies be forced to employ the British candidate rather than the best candidate? Will they be punished for choosing the best one even if they are not British (tax breaks if you'll give a job to an idiot anyone?)

I genuinely don't understand this anti semitism thing. What kind of things are being said during dinner party chit chat?

I'm not stirring, I just don't attend dinner parties and live at the arse end of nowhere.

I assume that the references to National Socialism are down to people finding it easier to deal with tragedy if they convince themselves that it will follow a trajectory they are familiar with.

The problems the world is facing currently and over the next twenty years are completely unprecedented - massive environmental problems across North and Central Africa, leading to tens of millions of refugees moving into Europe and Southern Africa to escape war, epidemics and fairly soon, famine. The World hasn't even managed the Syrian refugee crisis, so it will cope very poorly with long term refugee movements.

Internal populist movements are way down the list of major human rights' problems facing this country and Europe.

Our priority should be helping the most vulnerable right now who are fleeing genocide created by Isis, not inventing fictional genocides.

How do you expect people to help victims fleeing genocide in other countries when they don't have understanding, empathy, humanity towards their own neighbours and people they've known for ages? When they're now inviting these doctors, cleaners, shop assistants to leave? I think you're asking for too much imagination and decency.

sukey things like.... (at a BBQ) "this burger's burned, it belongs to one of you lot: Bernie Burger!"

"The Jewish women in North London are over dressed and too blinged up" (look of disgust in her face as she said this)

"Why do Jewish people make these strange rules for themselves? Why don't Jewish people eat pork? What have they got against bacon? "

Comparing the current government to 1930s Germany is lazy, ignorant, and betrays an embarrassing lack of knowledge or understanding of history.

That is all.